JFK ASSASSINATION ARGUMENTS
GREG PARKER SAID:
>>> "So you believe JFK being shot was a positive?" <<<
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
You're off to a really great start with your rebuttal, Greg. ~smirk~
>>> "Less than 90 seconds, David [that is Greg's detailed timing of when Oswald was seen by Police Officer Marrion Baker and Roy Truly in the 2nd-floor TSBD lunchroom]." <<<
Oh, that's right! Greg Parker was in Dealey Plaza with his stopwatch on November 22nd and was timing every move made by Oswald, Baker, and Truly. I forgot about that.
>>> "Try within a minute [Oswald being seen by either Pierce Allman or Robert MacNeil]." <<<
That's based on your timing of these things with your own stopwatch again, eh Greg?
And I don't imagine that Greg finds it the slightest bit odd that Lee Oswald wanted to leave the scene of the crime only one minute (per Greg's clocked account of when Oswald left) after the U.S. President had just been shot outside LHO's workplace.
It was just another ho-hum, ordinary Friday around the Book Depository on November 22. Nothing big happening at all.
>>> "Yet you would have him in suicide mode inside the TT [Texas Theater]." <<<
Why would you say that?
You think Oswald's pulling a gun on police officers in the theater was a sign of him being SUICIDAL?
It's a sign of just the opposite, of course -- i.e., he wanted to kill the cops before they could kill him.
>>> "Then he [LHO] should have headed straight out of the state, no? [after I had earlier said that Oswald "probably wanted to put some mileage between himself and the crime scene as soon as he could"]" <<<
He probably was headed "out of the state". But he never got that far.
Seeing as how he had to walk and use busses and cabs for his transportation, it's not surprising he didn't get very far after murdering the President. (Duh.)
Oswald's post-assassination movements are, of course, a very good reason to know that Oswald was performing a solo act on 11/22/63. But, for some reason, conspiracy theorists always refuse to use their common sense when talking about this case.
So, naturally, in the upside-down world of conspiracy-hungry kooks, Oswald's post-assassination actions (which undeniably are saying "I'm All Alone!") are interpreted as meaning something else entirely by the CTers.
Go figure the topsy-turvy thinking of conspiracists.
>>> "Is there anything in the WCR which is unreasonable, in your opinion?" <<<
Not very much, no. They investigated the murder of the President in great detail....and they arrived at the truth regarding that murder (and J.D. Tippit's murder and Lee Harvey Oswald's murder too).
I have a small quibble with the Commission, though when it comes to the reconstructions of Oswald's post-12:30 movements (see later comments). But that quibble, in the long run, only makes Lee Oswald MORE likely to be the killer of JFK, not less likely.
>>> "Timings established by ludicrous recreations... jogging for chrissakes.... were Baker and Truly in training for a Fun Run or chasing down an assassin?" <<<
During one of the re-creations, the Warren Commission should have had Secret Service Agent John J. Howlett SPRINT across the sixth floor and down the stairs, instead of merely doing two reconstructions at a "normal walking pace" and a "fast walk" [Warren Report, p.152].
I kind of doubt that Oswald was strolling along at a "normal walking pace" after having just shot the President of the United States in the head. A "fast walk"? Perhaps. But, IMO, the WC should have performed at least one re-creation test at a pace that was FASTER THAN JUST "WALKING". But they did not do such a test.
"A test was...conducted to determine the time required to walk from the southeast corner of the [TSBD] sixth floor to the second-floor lunchroom by [the] stairway. Special Agent John Howlett of the Secret Service carried a rifle from the southeast corner of the sixth floor along the east aisle to the northeast. corner. He placed the rifle on the floor near the site where Oswald’s rifle was actually found after the shooting. Then Howlett walked down the stairway to the second-floor landing and entered the lunchroom. The first test, run at normal walking pace, required 1 minute, 18 seconds; the second test, at a “fast walk” took 1 minute, 14 seconds. The second test followed immediately after the first. The only interval was the time necessary to ride in the elevator from the second to the sixth floor and walk back to the southeast corner. Howlett was not short winded at the end of either test run." -- WCR; Page 152
>>> "And yet, [after I said this: "The WC didn't merely pick "12:33" out of their collective ass, Mr. Kook. It was a reasonable approximation of the time Oswald left the building, based on the observations of a variety of witnesses"] you will argue WHEN IT SUITS YOU, as does Bugliosi, that "time estimates given by, for instance, a single witness would often change every time the witness was interviewed and nearly always be in conflict with those given by other witnesses. All of this, of course, is normal and to be expected." [End Bugliosi quote] .... Your hero [Greg means VB, of course] shoots you down." <<<
Vince, of course, is correct. Time estimates should be weighed and balanced, and many times they should be discarded entirely, such as Helen Markham's time estimates for the Tippit murder. We know via other evidence that Markham was most certainly incorrect about her "1:06" to "1:07" timing for the Tippit slaying (and at one point she said she thought the murder occurred at around 1:30).
But many CTers think we should let Tippit's murderer (that was Lee Oswald, of course) off the hook because of Markham's timeline (and Bowley's), even though Oswald was positively identified by Mrs. Markham (and others) as Tippit's killer.
With respect to the Baker/Truly/Oswald timeline, conspiracy theorists always will totally ignore the fact that re-creations were done by the Secret Service, FBI, and Warren Commission....all of which favor the likelihood of Oswald being able to get from the sixth floor to the second floor in well under 90 seconds.
And, as mentioned earlier, it's likely that Oswald was moving much faster than Agent Howlett of the Secret Service was moving during Howlett's reconstruction of the event, making it much more likely that Oswald got to the lunchroom on the 2nd Floor in less than Howlett's best time of 74 seconds.
But it's best if CTers continue to ignore these realities. Otherwise, it might make the prized "patsy" look a lot guiltier.
>>> "Mary Bledsloe [sic; Bledsoe] was old and Oswald had only been a boarder for a very short time. Her memory was obviously not good as she needed notes to give her testimony -- and that on the suggestion of Secret Service. Let's be kind and say she was manipulated into her role, or was simply genuinely mistaken, but encouraged." <<<
LOL. Oh, good! More people being "manipulated" by the evil "Let's Frame Oswald" forces that were present in massive quantities in late 1963 in Dallas (and Washington...and New Orleans...and Mexico City...etc.).
That's the CT motto playing out again -- i.e., "IF IT POINTS TO OSWALD, LET'S PRETEND THAT EVERYONE WAS LYING THEIR ASSES OFF IN ORDER TO FRAME HIM".
>>> "McWatters was absolutely not a liar. He told the truth. He was under the impression he was brought in to ID the laughing boy." <<<
Could be. But so what?
>>> "[The paper bus transfer was] conveniently found [in Oswald's shirt pocket] after they got reports of laughing boy and wanted to make Oswald fit that role. In fact, the transfer was probably given to, and taken from young Master [Milton] Jones." <<<
You kooks are a riot.
You think that the cops even went to the trouble of lying about something totally meaningless -- like the bus transfer in Oswald's pocket.
Naturally, you have absolutely no good-enough reason to suspect the authorities of foul play with respect to the bus transfer (or anything else). But that won't stop you from planting a seed of suspicion against the Dallas cops. Right, Greg?
In a word -- Pathetic.
>>> "There is also this from a commission letter to the FBI re McWatters... "...changed his story to the effect that he was mistaken when he identified Oswald as the individual who rode on his bus on 11/22/63. McWatters stated that the person who was the subject of his testimony was a young teenager named Milton Jones." <<<
Big ol' LOL here! [In fact, I think two are needed in this instance.]
The conspiracy theorist named Greg Parker actually seems to think that the above statement by the Warren Commission regarding bus driver Cecil McWatters is something that can be utilized by kooks such as Mr. Parker to somehow paint the Commission and/or the DPD (et al) as lying, rotten crooks in some fashion. (You DO think that the WC was full of nothing but lying, rotten crooks who were bent on finding Oswald guilty, don't you Greg?)
In reality, that particular transmission from the WC to the FBI shows the HONESTY of the Commission in general. It's also called: GETTING THE FACTS STRAIGHT (which is something that CTers never seem capable of doing).
>>> "He [LHO] denied it [being on the bus] initially, and we only have the word of his interrogators that he recanted." <<<
And, naturally, those "interrogators" never would tell the truth. Would they, Greg?
>>> [After I said this: "Oswald also readily admitted that he was stopped by a policeman inside the TSBD just after the shooting. (The cops are all liars, right? Plus Truly? Plus Bledsoe? The list of liars grows and grows whenever you talk to a conspiracy kook.)" -- Greg Parker then uttered this batch of retarded idiocy:] "No. He was stopped. Just not by Baker and not on the 2nd floor." <<<
Good! More liars to add to a kook's list -- Marrion L. Baker and Roy S. Truly.
>>> "LOL. After two days, this simple action of a bus ride had not been fully fleshed out???!!! Yet these were the genuises [sic] who got their man in record time? Come on." <<<
The "not fully fleshed out" conclusion is, of course, the only reasonable one to come to.
But to a conspiracy kook, it's MORE reasonable to think that a bunch of people were trying their darndest to frame an innocent man for TWO murders.
Sorry, Greg, but my scenario is just a tad more "reasonable".
>>> "The only valid conclusion is that it took time for these moroons to realise [sic] Oswald was not Laughing Boy Milton. But by then, they were not about to admit such an egregious error. Oswald had to be place[d] on that bus now just to save face." <<<
District Attorney Henry Wade (et al) merely were incorrect about Oswald being the "laughing boy". Simple as that.
All reasonable people know that Oswald was on Cecil McWatters' bus on 11/22/63. It's only the retarded conspiracy-happy kooks who want to try and deny that LHO was ever on the bus.
Per the Anybody-But-Oswald conspiracy theorists, it evidently was "THE WORLD VS. THE PATSY" in November 1963, and everybody in officialdom decided to join in the frame-up of an innocent man.
>>> "[It was Milton] Jones' [bus] transfer. No mystery." <<<
So you think somebody planted Milton Jones' bus transfer in Lee Oswald's shirt pocket in order to frame Sweet Lee, eh?
LOL. The lengths you kooks will go to try and exonerate a double-murderer have no boundaries. Do they, Greg?
Didn't think so.
David Von Pein
June 26, 2009
Posted By: David Von Pein