(PART 460)


>>> "They [Klein's] had NO stock of 40" Carcanos in March 1963." <<<


You're quite obviously dead wrong here -- because Klein's shipped
Oswald/Hidell a 40-inch Carcano on 3/20/63.

No matter how many times you deny the truth contained in the above
paragraph, you'll still be proven 100% wrong....because Klein's
positively shipped Oswald Carcano rifle #C2766 in late March of
1963....and rifle #C2766 is a 40-inch rifle. Period. End of story.

>>> "Furthermore, I admit they added the wrong picture..." <<<

LOL. As if the fuzzy PICTURE of a rifle in the Klein's ad makes any
difference at all. You're a stitch, Rob-Kook. A real howl!

It wasn't the PICTURE in the ad I was emphasizing, you Dufus! It was
the combination of the WORDS printed in the ad (words that you claim
CANNOT go together). These words:

"6.5 Italian Carbine"


"40 inches".

The picture in the ad is meaningless for the purposes of proving that
you (Robby The Moron) don't know what the hell you're babbling about
regarding this "carbine" subject.

Let's move ahead to Robby's next hilarious episode in his "Anybody But
Oswald" show....

>>> "...but a picture does NOT outweigh a description..." <<<

Right. As I said, the hazy picture of the rifle in the ad is
meaningless for this discussion. And the picture in the November 1963
magazine ad does not outweigh the description. You're right about
that. Which means that you are full of shit when you (and others) make
the incorrect claim that the 40-inch version of the Mannlicher-Carcano
rifle that Klein's sold was NEVER referred to as a "CARBINE".

Because, as we can easily see via the November 1963 ad circled below,
Klein's definitely DID describe (in WORDS) the "40-inch" weapon in the
ad as being a "carbine".

Care to eat some crow yet, Mr. Rob-Kook? Or do you still want to
contend that nobody at Klein's ever referred to the 40-inch Italian
Carcanos as "carbines"?

>>> "...but a picture does NOT outweigh a description, a catalog number and a lower price." <<<

LOL. The part about "a lower price" is hilarious too....because Oswald
would have paid EXACTLY the same amount of money for his rifle if he
had ordered it via the November 1963 Klein's ad instead of from the
February 1963 ad.

It appears that the catalog number is slightly different when
comparing the two ads (the February ad that Oswald used has the letter
"T" preceding the "750" in the catalog number), but the price for the
item that Oswald ordered (i.e., the rifle/"carbine" with the 4x scope
included) is exactly the same in both the February and November
advertisements ($19.95).

And the price difference for the rifle by itself is just 10 cents --
$12.88 in February and $12.78 in November. So, in November, Klein's
was actually selling the LONGER (40-inch) rifle for LESS money than
the 36-inch version.

That last fact I just mentioned causes another one of Robby's silly
arguments to blow up in his face, when Rob stated the following
(without even realizing, evidently, that the LENGTHIER 40-inch rifle
was LESS expensive than the 36-inch variant, per the two Klein's
advertisements in question):

"They [Klein's] did NOT send out more expensive product(s) when
you ordered/paid for less!"
-- Rob; 03/17/09

>>> "I have NEVER denied the word "CARBINE" is mentioned[,] as that is all they [Klein's] had to sell at that time, but rather my point is they used the wrong picture for some reason." <<<

The picture is meaningless, you mega-kook. You claimed in earlier
posts that the 40-inch rifle was never referred to as a "carbine". The
photo of the November '63 ad that I supplied proves you are wrong,
because Klein's obviously DID refer to the 40-inch Italian rifle as a

And the fact that I linked a photo to the November 1963 ad (vs. the
exact February '63 ad from American Rifleman that was used by Oswald
to order his weapon) is not relevant to this discussion either. I knew
full well when I first posted that ad that it wasn't the exact ad that
Oswald ordered his rifle from.

I posted the pic to the November ad to show that you (the President of
the Anybody-But-Oz Clubs of America) were full of shit when you said
that nobody at Klein's had ever referred to the 40-inch Carcano rifle
as a "carbine". And the November '63 ad proves that you're wrong about
that....and there's nothing you can do about it.

>>> "Yeah, but your beloved document [says] "Carbine" on it[,] IF I recall correctly Dave, so how does that work?" <<<

Sure, Waldman Exhibit 7 says "carbine" on the Klein's paperwork. So
what? Klein's obviously considered BOTH the 36-inch rifle and the 40-inch
rifle to fall under the general heading of "6.5 ITALIAN CARBINE" (which is
what it says on Waldman 7, and the two magazine ads shown above).

So what's your point, kook? Per the two Klein's ads in question, BOTH
lengths of the gun WERE considered "carbines". Period.

>>> "A 40-inch rifle in the Carcano line CANNOT BE A CARBINE." <<<

~big ol' sigh~

Why is there such vehement argument from you kooks about semantics and
a whopping FOUR-INCH difference in the length of the gun. Incredible.

>>> "Oh, by the way, the serial number C2766 is NOT unique[,] as each manufacturer of the Carcano USED THE SAME SERIAL NUMBERS, so that number can be used as many times as there were factories making Carcanos during WWII." <<<

Yawn and Bullshit!


MEL EISENBERG -- "Based on your experience with firearms, is the
placement of a specific serial number on a weapon generally confined
to one weapon of a given type?"

ROBERT FRAZIER -- "Yes, it is. Particularly--may I refer to foreign
weapons particularly?
The serial number consists of a series of numbers which normally will
be repeated. However, a prefix is placed before the number, which
actually must be part of the serial number, consisting of a letter."

EISENBERG -- "Have you been able to confirm that the serial number on
this weapon is the only such number on such a weapon?"

FRAZIER -- "Yes, it is."


But apart from the testimony I just presented above from the FBI's Bob
Frazier (which indicates that Robcap and other silly conspiracists of
his ilk are dead wrong about the serial number topic), here's a
challenge for all conspiracy-happy kooks..........

Come up with ANY RIFLE (or ANY MANUFACTURED ITEM, PERIOD, whether it
be a rifle or a handgun or a toaster or a refrigerator or a DVD player
or a hair dryer) that has the exact same serial number stamped on it
as Lee Harvey Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano rifle -- i.e., the serial
number "C2766".

I'd wager that nobody on this planet can come up with a single product
of ANY KIND (a Carcano rifle or otherwise) that is stamped with that
exact serial number.

Good luck.

>>> "Lisa Pease discovered this years ago." <<<

Lisa Pease is another charter member of your Fraternity Of Kooks.

>>> "A Carbine and 40" model are NOT nearly identical." <<<

Four inches difference. Whoopee!

>>> "YOU keep skipping over the fact they [Klein's Sporting Goods] had NO 40" models in stock to send to him [Saint Oswald] even if he ordered one, and we KNOW he did NOT." <<<

I certainly did not "skip over" this topic. It's obvious to anyone but an
ABO nutcase like you that Klein's HAD TO HAVE HAD a 40-inch Carcano
rifle in stock in March of '63....because they sent one of those things
to Lee Oswald in March of '63.

Has the reality of the above sentence sunk in yet?

(Silly question--of course it hasn't. Because Rob's head is made of

>>> "Do you have any evidence or proof for your claim of them [Klein's] sending him [Oswald] a 40" model instead of a 36" Carbine?" <<<


Geez Louise. Is this silly rifle talk ever going to end? (Apparently not.)

Yes, of course I have evidence and proof that Klein's sent LHO a 40-inch
rifle instead of the 36-inch one he actually ordered from the February
1963 American Rifleman magazine ad.

And, Mr. Braindead, that "evidence" and "proof" is called "Waldman
Exhibit No. 7":

I'll take it real slow this time:

1.) Klein's sent Oswald/"Hidell" one "Italian Carbine 6.5 With 4x
Scope" (per Waldman Exhibit #7) on March 20th, 1963.

2.) The "Italian Carbine" that was shipped by Klein's to LHO had the
serial number of "C2766" stamped on it (again, per Waldman #7, which
is a document you conspiracy-seeking kooks must really, really hate
with a passion).

3.) The rifle found on the sixth floor of the TSBD on 11/22/63 had the
serial number "C2766" stamped on it (plus Lee Harvey Oswald's prints
on it too).

4.) And the biggie (as far as this silly topic is concerned) -- The
TSBD rifle with "C2766" stamped on it is positively a FORTY-INCH

~Another MARK VII~

>>> "He [Dr. James J. Humes] admitted to burning his ORIGINAL notes. That is tampering with evidence! I don't need to read his testimony for that!" <<<

Is that all you have to say here? Would you like to now admit that you
were full of shit (again) when you definitively claimed that Dr. Humes
burned his notes AFTER Lee Oswald had been killed by Jack Ruby?

But Humes' WC and ARRB sessions are proving you wrong there. Care to
retract your previous inaccuracy in this regard?

>>> "LOL!! This from a man who thinks ALL RIFLES ARE CARBINES!!" <<<

Wrong again, Mister Misrepresentation.

I never once said that "all rifles are carbines". I said that (by
literal definition in the dictionary) all CARBINES are RIFLES. And
they are. Let's have a look:


David Von Pein
March 19, 2009