ROB CAPRIO SAID:
The DIFFERENCE is LHO was NOT shown fake SS credentials, he just assumed based on the guy's haircut.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
LOL.
Rob [a charter member of the "Anybody But Oswald" conspiracy club] thinks that the man's "haircut" was the ONLY thing that made Lee Oswald think that the man he encountered outside the Book Depository was a Secret Service agent.
I guess ALL men with crew-cuts MUST be affiliated with the Secret Service, huh Rob?
In point of fact, the only evidence we have on this matter is a report written by Secret Service Inspector Thomas Kelley, dated November 29, 1963 [linked HERE], wherein Kelley reports on the things he observed when he was present during some of Oswald's interrogations at the DPD....including Oswald's remarks to Kelley on 11/24/63 (just an hour or so before LHO was shot and killed):
"He [LHO] asked me [Thomas J. Kelley] whether I was an FBI Agent, and I said that I was not, that I was a member of the Secret Service. He said when he was standing in front of the Textbook Building and about to leave it, a young crew-cut man rushed up to him and said he was from the Secret Service, showed a book of identification, and asked him where the phone was. Oswald said he pointed toward the pay phone in the building and that he saw the man actually go to the phone before he left." -- WR; Pg. 629
So, we can see via Kelley's SS report that Oswald actually said the man he encountered TOLD HIM he was from the "Secret Service" AND showed Oswald a "book of identification".
Therefore, kooks like Rob should probably be propping up Oswald HIMSELF as another person in Dealey Plaza who supposedly was SHOWN official Secret Service identification on 11/22/63.
Of course, we can have all the confidence in the world that Oswald did not hear the words "Secret Service" come out of the mouth of the man he encountered near the Book Depository's front entrance at approximately 12:33 PM on November 22, 1963.
And we can also be just as confident of the fact that Oswald was not shown any "book of identification" by the man LHO encountered that day.
And that's because we can be fairly confident that Oswald saw one of two newsmen (possibly both) -- Pierce Allman of WFAA or Robert MacNeil of NBC. And neither of those men is a "Secret Service" man, nor did either man show anyone any "Secret Service" identification on 11/22/63.
So, we're again back to my main point regarding this matter, which was (and still is):
"If Lee Harvey Oswald could easily misidentify a newsman as a Secret Service agent in Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63 (and he did, per his comments about this matter to the police after his arrest) -- then why is it out of the realm of possibility for other witnesses in the Plaza to have made the very same kind of mistake that Oswald made that day?" -- DVP; April 9, 2009
Or, to use the words of Vincent Bugliosi:
"From all the evidence it clearly appears that the Secret Service sightings on the grassy knoll and behind the Book Depository Building after the shooting are entitled to about the same weight as Oswald's statement in Captain Fritz's office about being confronted by a Secret Service agent in front of the Book Depository Building." -- Page 871 of "Reclaiming History: The Assassination Of President John F. Kennedy" (c.2007)
ROB CAPRIO SAID:
He [Oswald] ASSUMED this, he was NOT shown any credentials to make this conclusion, UNLIKE the other witnesses.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Better learn the facts, Rob. As I just mentioned above, the only official place that I know of where this topic comes up is on Page 629 of the Warren Report, which I linked earlier. And that indicates that Oswald told Thomas Kelley that the words "Secret Service" came out of the mouth of the man whom Oswald encountered in front of the Depository.
[2012 EDIT -- I have since learned that there is another source of information regarding this topic. It's located in Warren Commission Document No. 354. In that Secret Service document, it says that Oswald told Police Captain Will Fritz that he (Oswald) had encountered TWO men who each identified themselves as Secret Service agents immediately after the shooting of the President.]
But, as mentioned, it's fairly certain that those words were not spoken by the man Oswald saw that day....because the man Oswald saw was almost certainly either Allman or MacNeil (and I kind of doubt either man would have identified himself to Oswald, or to anyone, as being a member of the Secret Service).
But any way you want to slice it, it's fairly obvious that Lee Harvey Oswald HIMSELF was confused about the real identity of the man he saw outside the building on November 22nd. Per Thomas Kelley's 11/29/63 report, it's clear that Oswald bumped into a man whom LHO erroneously thought was some kind of law-enforcement official.
Therefore, if that kind of mix-up could happen to Oswald, then why couldn't it also happen to other people in Dealey Plaza that day as well?
ADDENDUM:
Author Vincent Bugliosi covers this topic very nicely in his book "Reclaiming History" (in a 7-page chapter devoted specifically to this very subject, entitled "SECRET SERVICE AGENTS ON THE GRASSY KNOLL"; Pages 865-871).
Bugliosi thoroughly explains the alleged "Secret Service" sightings by the various witnesses. And Vince logically concludes that Police Officer Joe Smith very likely ran into NOT a Secret Service agent on the Grassy Knoll, but instead Smith encountered James W. Powell, who was a member of the 112th Military Intelligence Group (which is an organization that aided and augmented the Secret Service during President Kennedy's visit to Dallas on 11/22/63).
Powell was off duty that day, but he was in Dealey Plaza when the assassination occurred, and he ran behind the picket fence atop the Grassy Knoll after the shooting.
Additionally, on April 12, 1996, Powell told the ARRB that he was pretty sure that he had shown his identification to some people behind the picket fence that day. He said he had "flashed my credentials" (a 1996 quote from Powell) to various police officers when he was behind the fence. And one of those police officers was very likely Joe Marshall Smith. [See pages 868-869 of "Reclaiming History".]
ROB CAPRIO SAID:
LHO shot no one that day...and it must eat your weak bladder up that YOU CAN'T prove he did, huh?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I don't need to "prove" Oswald's guilt, Rob. The Dallas Police Department and the Warren Commission, way back in 1963 and 1964, proved that your hero named Lee Harvey was a double-murderer.
The fact that you continually deny Oswald's obvious (double) guilt is of no consequence (either large or small).
But I would think you'd feel just a little twinge of guilt yourself when you pitifully attempt to defend a double killer the way you like to do.
I guess Rob must be related to the late Johnnie Cochran. Johnnie didn't seem to feel any remorse about defending a double killer either.
David Von Pein
April 10, 2009
