ROBERT "SUPER KOOK" CAPRIO SAID:
>>> "The motorcade route (minus turns on Houston and Elm) and the luncheon were set as of September 13, 1963, before LHO started work at the TSBD." <<<
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Total bullshit. Learn the case. And the proper chronology.
It was announced in mid-September that JFK would be going to Dallas,
yes. But the site for the November 22 luncheon (and, hence, the exact
motorcade route through the city) wasn't determined and finalized
until much later (November 13 or 14 to be more precise).
Kenneth O'Donnell is the one who approved the Trade Mart for the
luncheon....and he didn't put the stamp of finality on that decision
until November 13th or 14th.
Look it up on Page 31 of the Warren Report, right here.
Plus -- The specific motorcade route through Dealey Plaza wasn't made
known to the public (including Mr. Oswald) until the morning of
Tuesday, November 19th.
The whole notion of some kind of "plot" with respect to "placing" LHO
in the Depository Building is one of the most insane theories ever
postulated by CTers over the years.
It's insane because of how we KNOW Lee Oswald got his job....which was
a job that was obtained through garden-variety happenstance and
ordinary word-of-mouth -- from Wes Frazier, to Linnie Randle, to Ruth
Paine/Marina Oswald, to Lee Oswald, to Roy Truly (with the latter
hiring Oswald on October 15th).
Were Frazier, Randle, Paine, Marina, and Truly ALL part of the evil
assassination "plot"?
Anyone thinking that ANY of those individuals was part of some scheme
or pre-assassination plot to put Lee Harvey Oswald in the Depository
should be locked up with Charlie Manson. Because such a CTer is certainly
off his or her rocker.
Was Oswald Planted In The Book Depository?
>>> "Since one could expect to be in jail or dead after shooting the president, I would think he could have splurged on a good weapon." <<<
Oswald didn't buy the Carcano specifically to shoot the President
with. He bought it in March '63 to use on General Walker. Oz's one-man
plot to kill JFK wasn't even on the horizon as of late March 1963 when
LHO first laid his hands on Rifle #C2766.
>>> "A professional killer is ready for anything. [Oswald not taking his revolver to work with him on Nov. 22] Just proves he was an amateur and incapable of doing the deed." <<<
Oswald knew he wouldn't need his pistol WHILE HE WAS STILL IN THE
DEPOSITORY BUILDING.
He knew this because of exactly what DID occur when he bumped into
Officer Baker in the lunchroom -- i.e., Oswald knew that his status as
an employee in the building would get him off the hook (temporarily at
least) just after the shooting. And, of course, it did just that, when
Roy Truly verified to Baker Oswald's status as a TSBD employee.
Why would Oswald want to start shooting away at cops (and others) when
it wasn't the slightest bit necessary to do so in order to flee the
building without being stopped as a suspect?
Oswald might have also thought it was wiser to NOT bring his revolver
with him to work on Friday. Because if (for some reason) he was caught
with the gun on him inside the building just after he shot the President,
it just might not look too good for ol' Lee at that time.*
* = Although, granted, many Texans did carry guns with them, circa
1963. But, then too, how many TSBD warehouse workers do you suppose
were packing rods on 11/22/63? (I don't know the answer to that
question with 100% certainty; but I'd wager the correct answer would
be zero.)
>>> "[The nitrates on LHO's hands] came from the boxes he was handling all morning." <<<
Huh? Nitrates from handling cardboard boxes?? First time I've heard
that one.
You could be correct I suppose (since I know that many ordinary things
can, indeed, result in a positive nitrate result), but I don't think I've ever
heard the "Boxes Caused The Positive Paraffin Result" argument heretofore.
Of course, Rob doesn't think it's possible that Oswald could have gotten
any nitrates on his hands while he FIRED THOSE FOUR BULLETS INTO
J.D. TIPPIT'S BODY on Tenth Street....right Rob?
Because, per kooks like Robert, Oswald never shot a police officer on
November 22nd. Right, Bobby?
(Sickening.)
>>> "His cheek was a negative and since he supposedly used a rifle this would be impossible." <<<
Bullshit. Learn the case, Rob. An FBI agent fired Oswald's rifle after
the assassination and tested "negative" on BOTH his hands and his
cheek.
>>> "Professionals constantly practice and they are the best. Why would an average at best shooter not practice and hope to be successful?" <<<
You can't prove Oswald never practiced with his Mannlicher-Carcano.
You THINK he never practiced. But you know you can never prove that
speculation.
And even if LHO never did "practice" with his weapon leading up to the
assassination, CTers still have noplace to go with this argument. It's
a sidebar issue...at best. It's a meaningless argument based on the
sum total of "OSWALD SHOT KENNEDY" evidence.
Naturally, a CTer prefers their chaff to the abundance of wheat that
LNers are always munching on. Well, so be it. ~sigh~
>>> "Not what the police said. They listed the ballistics for the Walker attempt as a 30.6 bullet." <<<
More bullshit.
The Dallas "police" notwithstanding, both Robert Frazier of the FBI
and Joseph Nicol of Illinois (the independent firearms identification
expert who examined much of the assassination-related evidence)
testified about the Walker bullet (CE573) in front of the Warren
Commission. Let's listen:
Mr. EISENBERG - Mr. Frazier, did you examine this bullet to determine
whether it was or might have been fired in Exhibit 139?
ROBERT A. FRAZIER - Yes, I did.
Mr. EISENBERG - And what was your conclusion?
Mr. FRAZIER - We determined that the general rifling characteristics
of the rifle 139 are of the same type as those found on the bullet,
Exhibit 573, and, further, on this basis, that the bullet could have
been fired from the rifle on the basis of its land and groove
impressions. .... All of the remaining physical characteristics of
this bullet, 573, are the same as Western 6.5 mm. Mannlicher-Carcano
bullets of the type normally loaded in ammunition made for this rifle,
139. However, the mutilation of the nose of the bullet has eliminated
the length characteristics, and it cannot be definitely stated that
Exhibit 573 is in fact a Western Cartridge Co. product, but all of the
remaining characteristics of base shape, distance from the base to the
cannelure, the width of the cannelure, and the overall appearance,
coloration, and so forth, are similar to Western ammunition.
Mr. EISENBERG - But you do conclude that this was fired from a
Mannlicher-Carcano 91/38, or a rifle with similar barrel
characteristics?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. McCLOY - When you say you were able to determine it was fired from
this type of rifle or one similar to it, that would include a number
of different kinds of rifles besides the Mannlicher-Carcano?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; it could include a variety of weapons with
which I am not familiar in the foreign field.
Mr. McCLOY - But it is definitely, according to your best judgment, a
6.5 mm. bullet?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
http://JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/Robert Frazier
-------------------------------
JOSEPH D. NICOL - I found that within the limits that Commission
Exhibit 573 is badly mutilated as a result of having struck some hard
object on the side that the class characteristics generally correspond,
that is to say it would be fired from a weapon of comparable rifling to
Commission Exhibit 572 [test bullets fired from Oswald's Carcano rifle
for comparison purposes].
Mr. EISENBERG - As I understand your testimony, therefore, you feel
that there are sufficient identical microscopic characteristics on 572
and 573 to say that they were probably fired from the same weapon, but
not enough to say that they were definitely fired from the same
weapon.
Mr. NICOL - Yes. My opinion would be based upon the finding of families
of lines that would be of the order of two to four fine striations on
the burr that I referred to. For a stronger identification, I would
want a larger group, I would want perhaps five or six in a given area,
all matching in terms of contour as well as position. But this I did
not find. And so for that reason, I would not want to express this as
a positive finding. However, I would not want to be misunderstood or
suggest that this could not have come from that particular gun.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/nicol.htm
-------------------------------
I'm certainly no ballistics expert like Bob Frazier or Joe Nicol, but
I can see the definite "MC/6.5mm" similarities with just one look at
CE573. The similarities are obvious, as can be easily seen in the side-
by-side pictures here:
>>> "If one handles a gun with no gloves, don't you think their prints will be all over it?" <<<
It's my opinion that Oswald used his brown shirt (which he was probably
not wearing during the assassination) to wipe off as many prints as he
could from the rifle while transporting it to the northwest corner of the
sixth floor before dumping the gun behind his (IMO) pre-arranged box-hiding
location near the stairs.
This could account for the fresh brownish fibers being found under the butt
plate of the rifle. (I ask: How would shirt fibers manage to WEDGE
themselves onto the rifle in any OTHER fashion?)
~shrug~
>>> "It [Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano rifle] was a low-velocity gun." <<<
Technically, yes, it's considered "low velocity". But it still produced an
average muzzle velocity of 2,165 feet-per-second (per Robert Frazier's
1964 Warren Commission testimony), which of course is more than
powerful enough to kill a human being who is less than 100 yards from
the shooter.
Let's listen to Bob Frazier again:
Mr. FRAZIER - The higher velocity bullets of approximately the same
weight would have more killing power. This has a low velocity, but has
very adequate killing power with reference to humans, because it is an
established military weapon.
>>> "It jams a lot." <<<
AFAIK, the Carcano never once jammed during the many tests that the
rifle was subjected to by the Army at Edgewood Arsenal. I could be
wrong about that, however. I will admit, on this point, I don't have
the exact stats at my fingertips. But it seems to me that I heard, via
some of the tests that were done after 11/22/63, that Oswald's Carcano
rifle was not prone to jamming up as much as the conspiracy theorists
claim.
I might be thinking about Dr. John Lattimer's experiments in the
mid-1970s, in which he tested various MC rifles (although not CE139
itself), with Lattimer finding that the Carcano rifle and its Western
Cartridge Company ammunition were very reliable and accurate.
Lattimer suffered no misfires at all while firing approximately 700 test
rounds from the exact same lots of bullets (four different lots total) that
were used by Oswald himself in CE139.
Upon perusing Lattimer's 1980 book ("Kennedy And Lincoln"), I couldn't
find a specific reference that addressed the "jamming" subject with
respect to the MC rifles he used in his tests, but Lattimer's extensive
experiments definitely showed that the conspiracy theorists are
dead wrong when they insist that Lee Harvey Oswald's feat in Dallas
was "impossible" due to his Mannlicher-Carcano rifle being a "piece
of junk", as these two diagrams below illustrate (from pages 300-301
of Dr. Lattimer's book):
>>> "Tippit [was] shot by two men with automatic weapons." <<<
Mega-Bullshit this time!
Lee Harvey Oswald killed J.D. Tippit beyond all doubt.
And: I wonder why "two men" were needed to murder Officer Tippit? And
I wonder (even more so) why it was, per Rob's scenario, that EVERY
SINGLE WITNESS (including Acquilla Clemons!) at the Tippit murder
scene failed to notice TWO MEN WITH GUNS?
Nobody saw TWO men with guns on 10th Street. The witnesses (save
Clemons) only saw one killer--Oswald. And only ONE man (Oswald) was
seen fleeing the scene by virtually all witnesses (with, again,
Clemons seeming to be the only dissenting witness in this "one man"
regard).
Also: How did the unknown "plotters" think they'd be able to frame
ONLY OSWALD for Tippit's murder when "they" went ahead and killed
the policeman with TWO automatic weapons, instead of just using one
non-automatic gun (which is all the proverbial "patsy" had with him on
November 22nd)?
Those plotters must have just gotten lucky when the cops AND the Warren
boys apparently wanted to frame the SAME patsy named Oswald after the
murder.
>>> "He [Saint Oswald] wouldn't have time to shoot Tippit..." <<<
You're referring to Conspiracy Myth #34B -- "OSWALD DIDN'T HAVE
ENOUGH TIME TO GET FROM HIS ROOMINGHOUSE TO TENTH STREET
IN TIME TO ENCOUNTER TIPPIT" -- right?
Of course, this is more CT-slanted bullshit. Re-enactments were done,
and it was proven that a person could easily traverse the 0.85 of a
mile in question in the approx. time Oswald had on 11/22/63. It took
about 11 or 12 minutes, per the re-creations.
And that was only at a "fast walking" pace; Oswald might have been
moving faster. Plus, LHO was almost certainly not in that roominghouse
for more than a minute or two, tops....not the "3 to 4 minutes" that
Earlene Roberts estimated.
>>> "...and more witnesses said it wasn't LHO [who killed Tippit] than
did." <<<
~sigh~
BULLSHIT ALERT #66!
Gee whiz, you seem to be trying for "Kook Of The Month" or something.
You've misrepresented just about every single thing you've posted
today....including the above hunk of total balderdash about the Tippit
witnesses.
Virtually every witness identified Lee Oswald as Tippit's murderer or
as the ONE MAN they saw fleeing the murder site with a gun in his
hands.
Mrs. Clemons, again, is the exception here. But Clemons only saw the
aftermath of the shooting; and, given the totality of the evidence
that needs to be weighed and assessed in this matter, Clemons almost
certainly HAD to have seen Ted Callaway with Tippit's gun, not some
non-Oswald "killer".
To believe that Clemons trumps people like the Davis girls (who saw
Oswald UP CLOSE and both saw him emptying shells from his REVOLVER
on their lawn) is just plain crazy.
In short, if Lee Harvey Oswald didn't kill J.D. Tippit, then nobody
killed him.
David Von Pein
October 2007
LINK TO ORIGINAL POST (OCTOBER 18, 2007)
