BEN HOLMES SAID:
But neither Lil Davey nor Henry has been able to show when and where Chaney spoke with Curry.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Ben, I'm confused about your concern over this Chaney/Curry topic. Didn't you tell me just two days ago that you DO think Chaney and Curry spoke while en route to Parkland?
Therefore, where are you going with your constant refrain about the Chaney/Curry meeting not being seen in the photos and films?
Since you've said the meeting DID take place, then what's your point?
You surely aren't suggesting the McIntire photo is fake because it shows no such meeting, are you?
In the McIntire picture, we can see what could be a couple of cycles underneath the underpass. One of them is likely Chaney, and he probably caught up with Curry's car on Stemmons Freeway itself (or on the ramp)....which would have been a time when no cameras were focused on those vehicles at all.
So--again--what the heck is your point? Or do you have a point at all?
BEN HOLMES SAID:
You've stated that it took place too. So simply point to the meeting in the films.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Of course it took place. Both Chaney AND Curry confirm that it happened.
But why you insist that the meeting HAD to be recorded in the photos and films is bizarre. The meeting obviously took place a little later when no cameras were focused on those vehicles. (Does this REALLY need to be explained to you?)
BEN HOLMES SAID:
So your theory is that while the vehicles are driving at 60-70mph - Chaney, from a dead stop under the underpass, manages to catch up, and hold a conversation with Curry...
Okay... if that's your theory, then simply state that it is... don't keep running.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Why on Earth would you think Chaney's cycle was at a "dead stop" while he was under the Triple Underpass bridge, Ben? You're getting more bizarre by the minute.
At the time Chaney would have been under the bridge, his cycle was no doubt moving at a pretty good clip.
And there are other possible explanations as to WHEN exactly Chaney talked with Curry en route to the hospital:
1.) The meeting could have occurred shortly after Mel McIntire took his photograph (below). (And the Jack Daniel film doesn't provide any solid info one way or the other.) We can see that Curry's car has already been overtaken by JFK's limo in the McIntire photo. Ergo, Curry has slowed his vehicle down before ever reaching the Stemmons ramp. If Chaney was moving at a good clip coming up from behind, I can easily envision the "meeting" between Chaney and Curry occurring on the Stemmons ramp.
Or....
2.) The Chaney/Curry conversation might have occurred after they had slowed down after getting off of Stemmons. Why is this option to be totally ruled out either?
In any event, regardless of WHEN the meeting took place, it definitely DID take place. And if you're somehow suggesting that all of the photos and films taken in or near Dealey Plaza have been altered in some manner---well, that's too nonsensical to even discuss.
BEN HOLMES SAID:
Actually, one very OBVIOUS point would be the sheer terror that all believers face when they realize that they can't answer this question.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
You're funny, Ben.
I'm not facing any "sheer terror" when it comes to this Chaney/Curry topic that you seem to love to harp on. I am amused by the fact that you even regard it as important at all. I don't consider it to be the slightest bit important. It's just one more piece of meaningless chaff for conspiracy theorists like Ben Holmes to chew on---and to go NOWHERE with. As always.
BEN HOLMES SAID:
So your theory holds that the Presidential limo passed Curry's vehicle. Too bad you can't support this with evidence.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Both the McIntire picture (shown above) and the brief film taken by Jack Daniel show the President's limousine passing Chief Curry's car. In fact, in the Daniel film (below), we can see Curry slam on the brakes just as JFK's car is overtaking Curry's vehicle (with Curry's car lurching forward, a sure sign of the brakes being applied hard).
DAVID VON PEIN LATER SAID:
Thanks for the Sorrels/Lawson/Greer testimony, Ben.
It's not nearly important enough for me to even consider looking up that testimony myself. I really don't care one way or the other. But thanks anyway.
That testimony satisfies me on the issue of whether the limo completely passed Curry's car. The limo was definitely just about to get totally past Curry's car (as we can see in the McIntire photo and the Daniel film), but evidently Curry got ahead again after starting to get behind the limo. I can accept that testimony as a fact with no problem.
Motorcycle officer James Chaney obviously was able to catch Curry either on the ramp or on Stemmons (or later). A conversation at 60 MPH on a freeway certainly isn't impossible. (Why would anyone consider that to be impossible anyway--if both vehicles are travelling at the same speed?)
So, Ben, is there any more wholly unimportant chaff you'd like to pretend is important?
BEN HOLMES SAID:
When did Sorrels place the Chaney/Curry meeting, Davey?
Mr. SORRELS -- "And, in the meantime, a motorcycle officer had run up on the right-hand side and the chief yelled to him, "Anybody hurt?" He said, "Yes." He said, "Lead us to the hospital." And the chief took his microphone and told them to alert the hospital, and said, "Surround the building." He didn't say what building. He just said, "Surround the building." And by that time we had gotten almost in under the underpass, and the President's car had come up and was almost abreast of us. When I saw them get so close, I said, "Let's get out quick," or "Get going fast," or something to that effect. In other words, I didn't want them to pass us, because I knew we were supposed to be in front. And that is when they floor-boarded the accelerator on the police car and we got out in front. And someone yelled loudly to go to the nearest hospital."
Was it before the underpass... or after the underpass?
It's a simple question... I predict that you're too much of a coward to answer it.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Well, Ben, Forrest Sorrels is quite obviously a wee bit off in his calculations of when Chaney drove up beside Curry -- because to believe he did so PRIOR to the vehicles getting to the underpass is just nutty. There was no way there was enough time for any of that to have happened PRIOR to the underpass. (And, of course, the Zapruder Film debunks that notion anyway.)
You're starting to remind me of Jim Fetzer. Jim thinks that all of this stuff should be visible on the Zapruder Film (all in about 1.5 seconds).
BEN HOLMES SAID:
Davey wants everyone to think he has no time for hours of laborious searching through musty texts.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I didn't say I didn't have time. I plainly said I just don't care one way or the other, because it's not important--at all. Only a fanatical conspiracy believer would even begin to think this Chaney/Curry thing is even remotely significant.
BEN HOLMES SAID:
Ah! But you're smart enough to realize that this topic is PROOF that films were altered... so you're desperate indeed to put this meeting anyplace else.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Ahhh! Thank you, Ben. That's what I've been waiting for. I knew you'd finally get around to photo/film alteration. Typical of the conspiracy hobbyist.
And this must also mean that Ben thinks that Mark Bell's film has been "altered" too....because Bell's film shows no motorcycle alongside Chief Jesse Curry's police car at any time, as we can see here:
I wonder if Ben ever stopped to ask himself these logical questions? ......
Hmmm, I wonder why the plotters who were faking and altering all of the films and photos that I, Ben Holmes, think have been faked and altered decided to remove James Chaney and his motorcycle from the films and photos? Why would anybody want to do that? Did Chaney's presence near Curry's car somehow prove the conspiracy the film-fakers were trying to cover up....so Chaney had to be cut out?
But, of course, clowns like Holmes never ever want to be bothered with logical questions like the ones I just posed above.
And, btw, just for additional clarification on this unimportant issue -- Mark Bell's film also corroborates the McIntire photo and the Daniel film with respect to JFK's limousine (at least for a brief period of time) getting out in front of Chief Curry's car just after the cars went through the Triple Underpass, as we can see in this still image from Bell's motion picture:
BEN HOLMES SAID:
Why would it [the Bell Film] need to be altered? IT DOESN'T SHOW THE RELEVANT TIME.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Oh, sure. It only shows the cars approaching the underpass and going under the underpass. And no cycle near the lead cars at all.
Now, tell me how that's NOT the "relevant time" in this Chaney/Curry affair you've been harping on.
You think Chaney pulled up alongside Curry even BEFORE the Bell footage begins?! Too funny!
But even if that had been the case, Chaney would still be quite visible near Curry's car in Bell's film. But he's not. Did Chaney and his motorcycle suddenly vanish into thin air during the few seconds of the Bell footage?
I think Ben has blown a gasket (again).
BTW, there are exactly eight seconds between the head shot and the time when President Kennedy's car goes under the bridge. And in those EIGHT measly seconds Holmes evidently thinks the Chaney/Curry meeting could have occurred.
David Von Pein
November 6-7, 2014 [This forum link is no longer available.]
