On June 11, 2013, I joined a private group called "Who Shot JFK?" at Facebook [and I've since decided to UNjoin it]. Actually, I wasn't invited to join it, I was merely added to it by the person who started the group at Facebook, which surprised me (and, in a way, kind of irritated me), because I think a Facebook member should have the choice of accepting or declining an invitation to join a particular group. Until this week, I didn't think it was even possible for somebody at Facebook to just "add" a member to a group without first getting permission or approval from the person they are attempting to add. But maybe this is something new at Facebook--the ability to arbitrarily add people to groups. Seems strange to me though.
Anyway, the Facebook group was created on 6/11/13 by Fort Worth, Texas, lawyer/author Jack Duffy, who, surprisingly, is good friends with "Reclaiming History" author Vincent Bugliosi (and Jack is mentioned a few times in Vince's book too). I say "surprisingly" because Mr. Duffy is an avid conspiracy theorist who believes in a lot of crazy things pertaining to the JFK assassination (as you'll see in the posts below). So, as far as JFK's murder is concerned, Jack and Vince are miles apart in their beliefs.
[EDIT: Vince Bugliosi was interviewed by Jack Duffy on Duffy's BlogTalkRadio Internet show on March 27, 2014. That interview can be heard HERE or HERE.]
Within just the first 24 hours of the creation of the "Who Shot JFK?" group, I noticed an interesting thing -- I took note of how several group members were still fully accepting (as true) many of the debunked conspiracy myths that are still circulating to this day about President Kennedy's assassination.
One person after another will make some statement that is just flat-out wrong. And one group member is even crazy enough to think that a set of "real" autopsy photos exists that shows a huge hole in the back of JFK's head. And that same conspiracist also wondered if I had ever watched the Zapruder Film in the past, with this conspiracist trying to tell me that the Z-Film positively shows this: "The whole back AND right side of his head AND part of his face were blown off."
That's the type of misinformation that I still see being uttered (and believed) by conspiracy theorists on the Internet here in the year 2013, almost fifty years after Lee Harvey Oswald shot and killed President Kennedy.
My recent experience at Jack Duffy's Facebook group just proves something that I and many other lone-assassin believers have been saying for years, that is: the conspiracy myths in the JFK murder case just refuse to die the death they deserve. And to illustrate that fact, I'm offering up several posts from Duffy's Facebook group below.
JACK DUFFY SAID:
If nothing else convinces people that there had to be a conspiracy, then the statistic in the new book "Hit List" should. The odds of 78 key JFK witnesses dying non natural deaths over a 10 year period without a conspiracy are a million trillion trillion according to statisticians who did the calculations. Incredible odds.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Jack, that "million trillion" stat was proven to be inaccurate by the very people who conducted the study years ago. They used the wrong figures to compute those odds. But that never stops a good conspiracy author from quoting the myths--long after they've been debunked.
The other day I still had to argue with some ill-informed person about the "Motorcade Route Was Changed At The Last Minute" myth. He wouldn't believe me even when I cited CE1362 to him. These myths never die--even when a stake is driven squarely through their hearts.
LARRY TURNER SAID:
There is a more recent posting of statistical analysis...and the documentation is exhaustive.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
The "Hit List" stuff is pure crap. And [Richard] Belzer's theory (based on the Intro I read at Amazon from his other book, "Dead Wrong") is pure junk too. He doesn't even have a good grasp on the case evidence regarding Marrion Baker or the SS re-enactment of LHO's movements. Belzer supports myth after myth, proving what I said before--these myths never die.
LARRY TURNER SAID:
Belzer is NOT the most recent analysis.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Ever see Jim Marrs' silly "Mystery Deaths" list? He's got Earl Warren and Marguerite Oswald on it. Those lists are nothing more than crackpottery.
LARRY TURNER SAID:
David, you seem very committed to being a staunch defender of the Warren Commission...but debunking some conspiracy theorists doesn't confirm their findings.
CARLA LEONARD SAID:
For whatever it is worth...the Sixth Floor Museum in Dallas even has the statistics posted of that, Many Witnesses/People involved on 11/22/63 dieing [sic] in such a short period of time. As I recall, the stats were done by Lloyd's of London...posted at the place that supports the "Lone Nut Gunman Theory" and the odds were just ridiculously unheard of, according to that plaque that I saw on my first visit to Dallas in 2007. It did not even take into consideration the "strangeness" of many of [the] deaths, as far as them being so violent, odd, suicides (suicided), just how Very Bizarre so Many of them were.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
What a great plan those conspirators had, huh? --- They decide to kill JFK in front of 30 cameras and 200+ witnesses. And they frame a patsy named Oswald, per the CTers [Conspiracy Theorists], by firing bullets into Kennedy from the FRONT (where Oswald WASN'T).
And then they have the added burdensome task of eliminating witnesses for many years afterward....even though they could have simply driven JFK from office by exposing his many (supposed) extramarital affairs that he was having. Or, at the least, kill him in a "quieter" fashion, instead of doing it in broad daylight with thirty cameras rolling.
What a brilliant group of plotters indeed. I guess they just liked doing things the hard way.
LARRY TURNER SAID:
Well, you are correct that Kennedy had many affairs. So did Lyndon Johnson. In November 1963 Kennedy's chances [of] being re-elected looked quite favorable against Barry Goldwater. I would venture that if Lyndon Johnson could beat Barry Goldwater in a landslide, JFK would have done at least as well...BUT, in November 1963 Lyndon Johnson looked like he would either not be JFK's running mate AND/OR he would be investigated by congress, indicted and convicted of numerous illegalities. But all this is widely known. The problem is not your rehashing of Warren Commission era tropes, but your tone of dismissive certainty.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Larry, I rehash the "Warren Commission era tropes" simply because the evidence is still the evidence--and it decides this case--and it all points to Oswald. Like it or not. And there's nothing you or I can do to change that fact. Do you think it's ALL fake?
LARRY TURNER SAID:
I think there was no effort to investigate the facts and great effort to surpress [sic] and ignore information - that as RFK Jr. recently said, the Warren Commission was "a shoddy piece of work" which greatly benefited powerful people who had no motives to find out what really had transpired.
JACK DUFFY SAID:
I stand by 22 surgeons. They can't all be wrong.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
The autopsy pics prove they were wrong. Case closed.
JACK DUFFY SAID:
Right Fantasyland. Why don't you talk to Dr. McClelland yourself. Then you can tell him he is wrong.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
So the HSCA was full of liars and cover-uppers too, right Jack? You DO realize the 22 members of the HSCA's photo panel said there was NO FAKERY in the autopsy photos, don't you? More liars??
JACK DUFFY SAID:
They are not going to go against the US government.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Vince Bugliosi had two long talks with McClelland (who thinks "The Mob" killed Kennedy btw). Didn't you even read any of Bugliosi's book?
JACK DUFFY SAID:
I helped him write it. I am the one who put him in touch with Dr. McClelland.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Good. Then you should know McClelland is full of crap.
JACK DUFFY SAID:
Why don't you publish that so he can sue you for libel like Dr. Crenshaw did with JAMA. Put up or....
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I'm not defaming McClelland by saying he's full of crap. That's called Freedom of Speech. I'm not calling him a murderer, for Pete sake. He's just wrong. BTW, I've been called a "Kennedy Killer" just this week by some conspiracy kooks. I have the gall to believe Oswald did it, and suddenly I am an accessory. Lovely, huh?
JACK DUFFY SAID:
No hard feelings David. I like the debate. We can agree to disagree. .... By the way, the HSCA said there was a conspiracy.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Oh my gosh, Jack. You surely know the ONLY thing the HSCA based their "conspiracy" on was the discredited acoustics tape, right? Nothing else.
JACK DUFFY SAID:
Around 65-70% of the nation still believes there was a conspiracy.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Yeah, I read where the newest AP poll has the belief in conspiracy dropping a bit [it's actually down to 59%, per the April 2013 AP poll]. It was 75% in 2003 (per Gallup). Good to hear too. It's about time some logic and reasoned thinking grabbed ahold of more people on this issue. And, given the evidence, the notion of Oswald not even holding a gun on 11/22 is too absurd for words.
JACK DUFFY SAID:
You still have to destroy all the evidence of the grassy knoll shooter.
You need to read "Head Shot". Written by a PHD in Physics. He proves through the laws of physics that the fatal shot came from the grassy knoll.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Jack, the "Head Shot" author proved no such thing. Dr. Chambers can't suddenly UNDO the autopsy photos and X-rays. And he cannot UNDO the bullet evidence, all which points to Oswald's C2766 Carcano.
Chambers has a THEORY, nothing more. But the bullets and the photos (and the Z-Film too) debunk the Grassy Knoll theory.
Of course, you can always theorize (as the HSCA did) that a Grassy Knoll shooter fired and MISSED everybody in the Plaza. But since the HSCA's Dictabelt evidence is about as valid as any theory claiming that "aliens shot JFK", I doubt that that theory will get you very far either.
PAUL GORRELL SAID:
All the Dallas Doctors said he had an exit wound in the BACK of his head. Not to mention the Harper fragment that was found was Occipital bone. Dang Bullet must have made a U turn!
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Wrong, Paul. The Harper fragment was parietal, not occipital.
And where's the great-big hole in the back of JFK's head here? I sure
don't see it....
PAUL GORRELL SAID:
[You're] right on the fragment, but it can be debated. After all, a frangible bullet explodes when entering a human. So it could very well be parietal. That's why they use them to make a bigger hole in the body. What, did Oswald load a frangible bullet just coincidentally on the only shot that hits JFK in the head?
Oswald had a medium velocity rifle and experts say he was shot by a high velocity rifle. And what about the bullet hole in the windshield? But you tell me having seen many gunshot wounds all the Dallas Doctors could be wrong? Explain that away. As well as the Gawlers Mortician Thomas Evan Robinson states Large Gaping wound in back of head. Patched by stretching rubber over it.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Robinson never patched anything at the BACK of JFK's head--and the above X-ray proves it. ALL THE SKULL IS STILL THERE, for Pete sake. There's nothing to "patch".
And you're believing in CT Myth #409 if you think there was a hole in the windshield. There was a crack; no hole. Or is Bob Frazier of the FBI a liar too? And the bullet that struck that windshield came from the REAR, with the lead residue being scraped from the INSIDE of the glass.
And regardless of "velocity" potential of LHO's C2766 Carcano rifle, it WAS the murder weapon. Fragments from that gun were IN THE CAR. How much more proof is needed than that to prove that Oswald's gun WAS firing bullets at JFK on 11/22/63? Am I supposed to believe that the CE567/569 fragments were planted too?
PAUL GORRELL SAID:
As the Technician Jerrol Custer B.N.H. said in an interview, the x rays in the archives [do] not match the ones he took. Paul O'Conner [sic] said exit wound in back of head B.N.H.
I suppose you think the Autopsy photos are real too.
As for the windshield, look at the testimony. Look at the Altgens photo or any of the eye witnesses said a through and through bullet hole from front to back. A Dallas Policeman said you could stick a pencil through it. William Greer said over the radio to the other secret service agents "Bullets were coming at us from every direction. One even came right through the windshield". Why do you keep evading about what the Dallas Doctors saw--a wound in the Back of his head?
If those are the correct X rays, JFK had a bone head in the back. That white area means dense bone. Also, I didn't know JFK had a metal hook in his ear!
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
It looks as though Mr. Paul Gorrell is trying to win this year's "I Believe Every JFK Conspiracy Myth That Has Ever Come Down The Pike" award.
Like I said, they never die.
PATRICE MITSOS SAID:
Oh, God, David von Pein [sic], just about all of the autopsy photos that have been circulated have been falsified by the government. A few "real" ones have been published. And those clearly show a massive wound in the back. Did you SEE the Zapruder film? The whole back AND right side of his head AND part of his face were blown off.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Patrice -- You're looking at a different Z-Film than me. Because you couldn't be more dead wrong about where the wound is in the Z-Film--it's positively toward the FRONT-RIGHT-TOP, not in the BACK. In fact, there's not even a HINT of redness (blood) at the back of his head in the Z-Film. Nothing. And ZERO of the published autopsy photos show any big hole in the BACK of the head either. Looks like you're making a lot of stuff up from whole cloth. I wonder why?
Also -- JFK's head moves FORWARD at the moment of impact at Z313 in the Zapruder Film too....a clear indication that the shot came from BEHIND:
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PATRICE MITSOS SAID:
David, his head was ALREADY A BIT FORWARD FROM THE FIRST SHOT FROM THE BACK. He brought his arms up, and keeled over a bit from the first shot that went through his damn THROAT. That's why he was already bent forward A BIT. But when he was shot from the GRASSY KNOLL, his head went decidedly back and to the left.
And how the hell big is a human head??? From the naked eye, if his head was hit from the right front, the impact is such that the whole top right side AND back of his [head] was BLOWN TO SMITHERENES [sic]!!!! Get real!
Why do you continue to refer to those CLEARLY doctored photos...in these photos and drawings, government officials and the military totally covered up the head wound and moved the bullet hole up six inches from where it actually penetrated. Why are you so damned duped by what a bunch of government CRIMINALS came up with, headed by one little ugly ambitious snorty little snot-nosed junior senator named Arlen Spector [sic]?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
You need a new pair of eyes, Patrice. The back of JFK's head is not blown out in the Zapruder Film. The damage we see in the Z-Film is perfectly consistent with a bullet that entered JFK's head from the rear, pushed his head rapidly forward by about 2 to 3 inches at the exact instant the bullet struck him, with the bullet then exiting at the right-front-top portions of the President's head. THAT'S what the Zapruder Film shows--like it or not.
PAUL GORRELL SAID:
Or it could be from the limo stop. When his head moves, all people in limo move slightly. Or, it looks like [JFK's] head was driven down when the bullet impacted between eye and temple from in front and above, then the head explodes as it would if a frangible bullet hit. It blows up like a grenade as it impacts the skull. It could have also been shot from the front and the back in synchronized fashion. If you take the Z film as gospel, you'll be going in circles. Like I said, film can be manipulated. It's been altered.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Like I said earlier, Paul is sprinting full-tilt toward that "Myth" trophy. Now he's added "Zapruder Film Alteration" to the list of myths he still endorses.
~yawn~
PATRICE MITSOS SAID:
No...you need a new set of eyes...and you need to open them. And more importantly, you need to discontinue whatever sick, twisted allegiance you have to that collossal piece of GARBAGE coined as the Warren Report. Open your eyes to what THAT monstrosity is all about. It's pure FICTION perpetrated on a one-time, yet thankfully very briefly, innocent, unsuspecting public who until that time couldn't believe that their own elected government officials consorted with other rogue elements to remove a president whose policies they hated.
Thank goodness about 80% of Americans over time have wised up to the sick charade that comprised the WC and the WR.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Patrice, you're wrong. Simple as that. You're saying things about the Zapruder Film that are just flat-out wrong. You shouldn't be doing that.
Nice anti-WC tirade, though.
~another yawn~
PATRICE MITSOS SAID:
No, David. You're the one who's wrong. You don't face facts. And, you dismiss the 80% of Americans who stongly believe that there was a conspiracy, and that the deadly bullet was shot from the front. And I know that these would be two separate polls, as it's two different issues...where did the kill shot come from?, and do you believe the WC?
And about 80% of Americans believe that the kill shot came from the grassy knoll, and about the same percentage KNOW...IN THEIR HEARTS AND/OR THROUGH THEIR RESEARCH that the WR is nothing but GARBAGE. You lack a BIG DOSE of common sense. You think one damn bullet is going to do ALL THE DAMAGE that little Spector [sic] said it did?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Patrice,
And just how many of that "80% of Americans" do you really think know a great deal about the facts and circumstances surrounding JFK's death? (Answer--a very small percentage of that 80%.)
And btw, the latest poll, as discussed earlier at this Facebook group, shows a drop in the number of people who believe in a conspiracy. It's down to 59% now (per the AP poll). That's still a high percentage, yes, but the conspiracy theorists like to exaggerate the poll numbers in their favor. I see that happen all the time at various forums, with some conspiracist claiming that "90 percent of Americans think the Warren Commission was full of shit" (paraphrased).
But, again, most of those people being polled probably wouldn't know who J.D. Tippit, Buell Wesley Frazier, and Earle Cabell were if their lives depended on it. Point being: the vast majority of Americans who participate in news polls are, for the most part, ignorant of the intricate facts about the JFK case. So what does their opinion really mean? I think it means they've watched a few conspiracy-oriented documentaries or movies (particularly Oliver Stone's 1991 fantasy flick, "JFK"), and they've based their opinion on those few things they've seen or heard about the case.
And we all know that Oliver Stone wouldn't present the true facts about JFK's assassination on the big screen if he had a gun pointed at his head. The people who went to see his movie came out of the theater not even knowing that Lee Harvey Oswald carried a bulky paper package into the Book Depository just hours before JFK was murdered. That tells you how anxious Oliver is to tell the whole truth.
David Von Pein
June 2013
DEBUNKING MORE
CONSPIRACY MYTHS:
