JFK ASSASSINATION ARGUMENTS
(PART 1014)


"NICKNAME" SAID:

I wouldn't link that if I were you. DiEugenio is making you look bad.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Yeah, right. The same guy who said this.....

"I don't think Oswald had anything to do with the
rifle transaction."
-- Jim DiEugenio

and this....

"I don't believe Oswald shot Tippit." -- J. DiEugenio

Jimbo's brilliant, ain't he?


NICKNAME SAID:

Is that all he said?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Oh, heavens no. He's said lots more stupid things....such as:

The Stupid Things James DiEugenio Believes


NICKNAME SAID:

Good list. And I'm afraid your one-word refutation at the end ("unbelievable") just doesn't cut it.

But I DO have a lot of questions regarding that list; if you'd like to pick an item out of that 22 randomly, I would love to ask a question about it and get your less laconic take on it.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

You pick one.


NICKNAME SAID:

I was hoping you wouldn't say that. Now I feel like a kid in a candy store, and also it will just appear that I cherry-picked one. To start, I'll choose number 6: Oswald never ordered a rifle from Klein's Sporting Goods.

My question to this is a three-parter....

1.) Why did Oswald have a rifle mailed to a traceable PO Box rather than paying for it in person with untraceable money? Also remember there would not have been closed-circuit security cameras to capture his image walking into a gun store in 1963. He could have made an anonymous purchase very easily.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

It's highly doubtful that Oswald could have made a completely "anonymous" gun purchase in Texas in 1963. That is very likely another myth created by CTers who are in love with Oliver Stone's version of events.

There are records even in THIS case (the JFK case) which indicate that some gun store owners in Texas definitely kept records of who was buying guns from them. Perhaps not ALL gun store owners kept such records in '63, but several definitely did, as Jean Davison's research clearly proves at the links HERE and HERE.


NICKNAME SAID:

Why does a known cheapskate like Oswald order a gun in the mail, which would incur him shipping and handling fees, when he could have walked into any gun shop in Texas and saved the shipping fees? Klein's shipping and handling fees were $1.50, which equate to approximately $11 today.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Oswald wouldn't have had to pay the $1.50 S&H fee at a brick-and-mortar store, true. But what about the sales tax that he would have likely had to pay at a gun shop, which he did not have to shell out in the Klein's mail-order transaction?

I suppose the state sales tax wouldn't have been quite as much as $1.50 for a $19.95 gun purchase in '63, but he would have had to pay some sales tax if he bought his rifle at a gun store.


NICKNAME SAID:

Many theorists point to the Chicago outfit of the mob as co-conspirators in the assassination due to their close ties with key players. Isn't it a strange coincidence that of all the places in the whole world Oswald could have ordered a gun, it came from a sporting goods store in Chicago?

I'm interested in your perspective on this. Thanks, David.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

That seems like a very minor point, Nick. It was merely a coincidence that Klein's was located in Chicago.

But where can you go with that "coincidence" anyway? Are you suggesting that the Klein's store was part of the Mob in some way (or knowingly supplying guns to Mob members)? ~shrug~

Anyway, there is no doubt whatsoever that Lee Harvey Oswald ordered, paid for, and took possession of Mannlicher-Carcano Rifle No. C2766 in early 1963. And for lots more proof of that fact, check out my article HERE.

And given the facts discussed at that webpage, it makes this statement by Mr. DiEugenio all the more ridiculous and foolish....

"I don't think Oswald had anything to do with the rifle transaction." -- Jim DiEugenio


NICKNAME SAID:

Thanks, David. I don't know that Klein's was "in on" anything as much as it merely just happened to be located in the heart of the hornet's nest, and therefore accessible to potential conspirators.

I don't make excuses for DiEugenio's statement, BUT Oswald's possession of a MC only proved he possessed one. The transaction is another matter entirely, and although these are just theories, mind you, we know for a fact that Oswald was Intelligence and worked with handlers---as I've said, an ex-Intelligence man didn't just happen to be working in the TSBD that day, and I've never considered him wholly innocent in that regard. We can't know whether or not the gun was given to him by someone he knew or trusted, and told something to the extent of "hold on to this, we'll need it later for an operation." Again, just a theory...and frankly a plausible one considering his background.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

What would make you think that anyone GAVE Oswald the Carcano rifle? The abundant paperwork for the rifle transaction clearly indicates that OSWALD himself placed the order for that gun and that OSWALD himself (via the money order with his own handwriting all over it) paid for the gun at the same time. And the paperwork also clearly shows that Klein's mailed the "C2766" rifle to OSWALD'S very own post office box in Dallas, Texas, in March '63. Those are rock-solid FACTS, not a theory.

As for Oswald getting his job at the Book Depository --- that's no sinister mystery either. The only reason he got a job at the TSBD in October of 1963 is because Buell Wesley Frazier just happened to be living only half-a-block from Ruth Paine's house in Irving. The close proximity of those two houses is (quite literally) the reason Lee Oswald was able to learn about a possible job opening at the Depository in October. If Frazier and Linnie Mae Randle had been living somewhere else in Dallas at that time, it's very likely that Oswald would never have gone to the TSBD for an interview at all.

More about Oswald's TSBD job HERE.


GARRY PUFFER SAID:

You present and mock DiEugenio's conclusion without addressing any of his arguments.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

My "22 Stupid Things" list is just a quick "overview" of Jimbo's silly beliefs. I've gone into great detail on all of those points in many other places on my sites. (Surely you realized that, didn't you, Garry?)


GARRY PUFFER SAID:

Oh, I have no doubt at all that you've weakly defended your position elsewhere, but if you're going to say something is stupid on this [Amazon.com] forum, you kind of have an obligation to defend your opinion a little bit. I'm not the only one here, and others might want a little taste of that defense, you see.

Tell us, please, how Oswald could have shot Tippit at about 1:07 when he was in front of his rooming house at 1:04. The 1:17 time is not true, as you know, but which I predict you will refuse to admit. You cannot nullify this observation by claiming you have eyewitnesses and a weapon. Those are only good if you can prove Oswald could have made it there in three or four minutes. He has to be there first, you see, before your weapon or witnesses are worth anything. You didn't seem to understand that the last time this came up.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

All times are estimates, Garry. You know that. Why not just admit that Bowley and Markham didn't have a Naval clock hovering above them flashing "1:06" or "1:10".

And who has ever said Tippit was killed at 1:17? (You just made up that time to make LNers look like idiots, didn't you?)

And the "1:04" time is only an estimate for LHO leaving 1026 Beckley. It's highly likely he left earlier, even via Earlene Roberts' testimony. She said LHO was in his room "just long enough, I guess, to go in there and get a jacket and put it on" [6 H 440].

Does it take 4 minutes to put a jacket on?

More HERE.


NICKNAME SAID:

It's a known fact WC placed the time of Tippit's murder at around 1:16, 1:17. Why don't you know this?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

The Warren Commission never specified 1:17. Garry made that up. The WC said "about 1:16". (Granted, 1:17 is only a minute away from that, but the WC never used the 1:17 time.)


NICKNAME SAID:

So it was actually 1:16 p.m., not 1:17. Seriously, that's your objection?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Yes, Nick, because Garry was trying to push back the WC's timeline of Tippit's murder in a further effort to make the Warren Commission look like a bunch of liars (which they weren't, of course). Although I do think the Commission was off by a couple of minutes on the Tippit shooting timeline. Tippit was probably shot at about 1:14, not 1:16. (And Vince Bugliosi, in his book, says he thinks the shooting happened at 1:12.)

But the Warren Commission's "about 1:16" timing isn't a lie. It was merely the Commission's best guess for when they thought the murder likely occurred. But as far as I know, the Commission did NOT take into account the fact that witness Domingo Benavides started pumping the microphone on Tippit's car radio at 1:16 PM. The WC seemed to be of the opinion that it was Benavides, and not T.F. Bowley, who first made contact with the DPD over Tippit's radio to inform the police of the shooting [see WR, p.7 and WR, p.166 and WR, p.651]. But it was really Bowley who made the first contact, which was at about 1:17 to 1:18.

Quoting from Dale Myers' book....

"Beginning at 1:16 p.m., a microphone is keyed a number of times on channel one of the Dallas police tapes, as if someone were 'pumping' the microphone button of a police radio. This continues for a little over 90 seconds, right up until the time passing motorist T.F. Bowley successfully contacts the dispatcher. .... Considering the timing of the sounds heard in the Dallas police radio recordings, and the corroborating accounts of three witnesses, the murder of Tippit probably occurred about 90 seconds prior to Benavides' bungled attempt to notify the dispatcher. Therefore, there is good reason to believe that J.D. Tippit was shot at approximately 1:14:30 p.m." -- Dale K. Myers; Pages 86-87 of "With Malice"

But, anyway, Garry Puffer evidently likes the time estimates of Bowley and/or Markham much more than he likes the PHYSICAL EVIDENCE of the murder weapon being in Oswald's hand a mere thirty-five minutes after somebody killed Tippit with that same gun.

Go figure CTers.


GARRY PUFFER SAID:

Yep, and despite your claim, there is no evidence that the pistol in question was the murder weapon, and worse, there is no evidence that Oswald had it on him, and even worse, there is literally no credible evidence that the pistol was Oswald's.

Davey-poo merely believes everything the WC tells him. Fritz's notes are NOT credible evidence, by the way. Nor are the shell casings which have no undisputed chain of custody. Nor are the arresting police because their stories contradict each other--and in McDonald's case, contradict himself.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Beautiful, Garry. Right out of the DiEugenio School For Deniers.

You apparently want to pretend that Smith & Wesson Revolver No. V510210 wasn't in Oswald's very own murdering hands at 1:50 PM CST in the Texas Theater (even though that pistol was in his hands, of course).

And you will keep denying that the two shells found by the Davis girls after the Tippit shooting don't have a clear chain of custody (even though they do).

And you'll keep pretending that there is "no credible evidence that the pistol was Oswald's" (even though the evidence couldn't be any clearer that Revolver V510210 was Oswald's gun).

Back to DiEugenio's class you go, Garry. Today you'll get to learn how, per Jimbo, "[Marrion] Baker never saw Oswald".

Looks like Garry Puffer is striving to become "Most Gullible Conspiracy Theorist" of 2015. Because it would appear as if any CTer can convince Garry of anything.


GARRY PUFFER SAID:

Even though I've made a half dozen requests, he [DVP] still will not tell us his "expert" qualifications in regard to the JFK assassination.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

I've never once in my life ever said I was any kind of a JFK "expert". Never. And I've never said I am a "researcher" either. Because I'm really not. I'm just a person interested in JFK, his life, and his death, and I choose to post a lot of stuff about JFK on my sites.


GARRY PUFFER SAID:

I make no claim to be a serious researcher, and Davey-poo does.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

That's an absolute lie right there. And Puffer surely knows it.

I have never ever "claimed" to be a "serious researcher". In fact, I like to stay away from that particular word--"researcher". I'd rather consider myself an "interested party with some common sense when it comes to properly evaluating the evidence in the JFK murder case".


GARRY PUFFER SAID:

You have never told us the magic key to telling the difference between real evidence and evidence set up to frame someone.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Anybody can claim "THE EVIDENCE IS ALL FAKE".

But that's simply a crutch used by CTers (and defense lawyers like Johnnie Cochran and Barry Scheck in the O.J. Simpson case) because they know they don't have anything else they CAN argue. Because if the evidence is not fake, then Oswald The Resident Patsy is guilty. Period.

It's a cop-out to bellow about "fake" evidence at every turn in the road, Garry. Can't you see that it's merely a cop-out utilized by desperate CTers looking for any excuse to set LHO free?

Plus, there are Oswald's own ACTIONS to carefully consider and evaluate too. That's apart from the physical evidence that LHO left behind in both of the murders. Oswald ACTED like a guilty person, didn't he?

Do innocent people poke cops in the face and exclaim "It's all over now" and then pull out a gun?

It's the physical evidence PLUS Oswald's own guilty-like actions that--together--spell out the answers in the JFK and Tippit cases. And if Oswald wasn't working alone on 11/22/63, then his co-plotters need a new line of work --- because those guys were worthless to Oswald on November 22 in Dallas.

And the Warren Commission had absolutely NOTHING to do with either of the following two very important things:

1.) The collection of the physical evidence in the Kennedy and Tippit murder cases.

2.) Lee Harvey Oswald's movements and actions on November 21 and 22, 1963.

David Von Pein
September 3-4, 2015