DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Jim [DiEugenio], in what document can I find the info about Tippit's wallet being taken off of his corpse at Methodist Hospital?
[Later....]
Never mind, Jim. I found it myself, via the files of the Dallas Municipal Archives (Box 9; Folder 2; Item 3), linked HERE.
And (just as I suspected) the document showing Tippit's personal property most definitely does NOT prove that Tippit's wallet was taken off of his body at Methodist Hospital (or at Parkland, where he was taken for his autopsy).
How can I know?
Because Tippit's service revolver is ALSO listed on this inventory of Tippit's personal property ("1 SW Rev Ser # 138278"). And we know that Tippit's revolver was LEFT AT THE MURDER SCENE after Tippit was shot, being picked up by witness Ted Callaway.
Therefore, the "Black Billfold" listed in that document didn't necessarily have to be taken off of Tippit's body at Methodist or Parkland.
MORE WALLET TALK:
Even though I [DVP] have stated in the past that I think the "mystery wallet on 10th Street" was J.D. Tippit's wallet (and I do still think that is the best guess), I'm not even sure there was any wallet found on the ground next to Tippit's body at all on 11/22/63.
There's not a single witness at the scene of the crime who said they saw a wallet lying by Tippit's body (or even UNDERNEATH his body after Tippit was taken from the scene by ambulance).
And I think Vince Bugliosi makes a small error in the endnotes in his book "Reclaiming History" when he says that Dale Myers proves that a wallet was "found at the murder scene" (via the unearthing of the WFAA/Ron Reiland film).
Yes, a wallet might have been "found" next to Tippit's body, but the witness testimony from those people who were there would indicate that no wallet was on the ground at all.
And just because Reiland filmed Sergeant Bud Owens of the DPD holding a wallet, that fact doesn't have to mean the wallet in the film was "found" on the ground at the scene of the murder. That's leaping to a conclusion that hasn't really been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, IMO.
Bottom Line (and Vince Bugliosi admits this in his book too, with Vince calling the wallet incident a "true mystery" [RH; p.453 of endnotes]) -- Nobody knows for sure who owned the wallet that is seen in Ron Reiland's WFAA-TV film.
JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID:
You tried to construct a totally silly and unfounded argument that the post office served as fiduciary for REA [Railway Express Agency]. Then when Dale Myers says, no, he picked it up at REA, you then drop that whole line of argument like a hot potato and say that oh yes, how stupid of me, of course REA would not do such a thing. Even though Myers was using the exact same database you already had!
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
~sigh~
How many times do I have to repeat this, Jim?:
Dale Myers provided additional information from the REA Vice President on this matter.
Will I have to repeat this a fourth time for you tomorrow, Jim?
JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2010/08/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-47
JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID:
DVP wants to keep the absurdities coming in even new and more bizarre shapes. The above reminds me of his order for the rifle that miraculously made it through the mail without a zip code over 700 miles, was checked in and then deposited within 24 hours, before the advent of computers.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
It's been pointed out to Jim DiEugenio before (by me, just yesterday) that Oswald mailed his rifle order form and money order via air mail, which is why it travelled from Dallas to Chicago in just one day. Simple.
Oswald also most likely mailed the Klein's order very early in the morning on March 12th, which would have made it even easier for an AIR MAIL letter to start out in Texas on March 12 (AM) and arrive in Illinois sometime on March 13.
Naturally, Jim D. ignores the "Air Mail" notation in CE785.
Will I have to repeat this for a ninth time tomorrow, Jim?
JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID:
Please show me the testimony, evidence or affidavit about the name plate, pens etc being stripped off Tippit at the scene. Yeah sure. Happens all the time, right[?]
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
When did I ever suggest such a foolish and stupid thing, Jim?
Answer: Never.
But you have no proof that a DPD officer didn't take Tippit's wallet from 10th Street to either Methodist or Parkland between the time Tippit was shot and the time Captain Doughty signed-off on the document which catalogues all of Tippit's personal belongings at 3:25 PM.
Allow me to quote Jim DiEugenio's favorite author of all-time, Vincent T. Bugliosi:
[VB Quote On:]
"But whose wallet was it? Dallas WFAA-TV cameraman Ron Reiland, narrating the silent footage for his viewers, said it was Tippit’s wallet. Apart from [Dale] Myers saying that Reiland’s reportage over the assassination weekend contained numerous factual errors, the main reason why Myers rejects the possibility that the wallet was Tippit’s is that “1 Black Billfold” was listed among Tippit’s personal effects, and Myers says, “The only item known to have been brought to the hospital [Methodist, and later Parkland] and added to Tippit’s personal effects was Tippit’s revolver, which by all accounts was left behind at the murder scene” (Myers, 'With Malice', pp.299–300).
But we know that several officers went to Methodist Hospital, where Tippit’s body was brought into the emergency ward, and they could have brought Tippit’s wallet from the murder scene to either there or Parkland. There certainly was plenty of time to do so before Tippit’s personal property was inventoried, at 3:25 p.m. (Document titled “Identification Bureau Crime Scene Search Section, Police Department, Dallas, Texas,” box 9, folder 2, item 3, DMA; Myers, 'With Malice', p.301).
Certainly, the mere absence of any statement or documentary evidence that an item of personal property (the wallet) was added to Tippit’s personal effects would not be strong evidence that such an event never took place.
But if, indeed, it was Tippit’s wallet, why didn’t civilian witnesses like Jack Tatum, Ted Callaway, and the two ambulance attendants, Eddie Kinsley and J. C. Butler, see the wallet lying next to Tippit’s body? Nor did Joe Poe and Leonard Jez, two of the first officers to arrive at the scene. (Myers, 'With Malice', p.300)
One thing we can be reasonably certain about: the wallet was not Oswald’s. Myers closely compared a close-up photo of Oswald’s arrest wallet (FBI Exhibit B-1) with the wallet found at the murder scene and found definite physical differences, causing him to conclude that “the Oswald arrest wallet is not the same billfold seen in the WFAA newsfilm” (Myers, 'With Malice', pp.298–299).
Furthermore, a Dallas police officer had just been slain. It is inconceivable that members of the Dallas Police Department like Captains Westbrook and Doughty and Sergeant Hill would suppress and keep secret the fact that Tippit’s killer had left his calling card at the murder scene. That simply would not, could not, have happened. If Oswald’s wallet had been found at the murder scene, it is inconceivable that nowhere in the testimony or the reports of Westbrook, Hill, Doughty, Poe, and so on, would they bother to mention this extremely important fact." -- Vincent Bugliosi; Page 454 of "Reclaiming History" (Endnotes)
JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID:
There is a film of this wallet being handled at the Tippit scene. Pretty good stuff, huh Davey?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Yeah, and the person who shot that film (Ron Reiland) told everybody on live TV within hours of filming the scene that the wallet was Tippit's.
Reiland's exact quote:
"This is the officer's billfold that was found lying on the ground right alongside of the car."
So, where did Reiland get the idea that the wallet was Tippit's, do you think Jim? Did he just pull that out of his ass? [HERE'S a related discussion about Ron Reiland and the wallet.]
Your favorite author of all-time, Vincent T. Bugliosi, has the likely answer (which makes all kinds of common sense):
"If I had to wager, I’d conclude it was Tippit’s wallet, and the reason Reiland stated, on WFAA film, that it was Tippit’s wallet is that the police had informed him at the scene that it was. Quite apart from Barrett, it makes no sense to me that the Dallas police and detectives, several of whom were Tippit’s friends, would keep from the world that his killer’s wallet was found near his body." -- VB; Page 456 of "Reclaiming History" (Endnotes)
JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID:
Did he [DVP] miss that HSCA testimony? Did he miss the 29 page essay they wrote on her [Marina Oswald's] credibility?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I guess perhaps Jim and everyone else missed this quote from Marina's HSCA testimony (even though Michael Hogan quoted it earlier):
"But when I gave testimony to the Warren Commission, it was all the truth."
Is the above quote another lie from the lips of Marina?
JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID:
Dale Myers did not add anything to your argument.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Yes, he did. And you know he did. But that won't stop you from repeating your nonsense for a 14th time tomorrow, will it Jim?
JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID:
You go ahead and buy something from a vendor 700 miles away. Mail it in. Call the company every day and see how long until your money order is in their bank. I will wager that if you did that five times, it would not clear in 24 hours once. Not once. You know how I know? Because even though I send in my mortgage priority mail, it takes a week to get into the company's bank.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
And yet BOTH the Warren Commission and the HSCA didn't have a problem with that money order going through the system in 24 hours, did they Jim? BOTH Government committees were filled with nothing but rotten liars and cover-uppers, right Jim? BOTH of them--14 YEARS APART FROM ONE ANOTHER!
You're living in a dream world of conspiracy/cover-up fantasy, Jim. And you surely must realize that fact.
Plus: If what you're saying is true (which it obviously isn't)--i.e., that there's no way Oswald's money order could have done what it did in about 24 hours in 1963--then it only shows that the people who were trying to make it look like it DID do those things in 24 hours WERE TOTAL IDIOTS AND DIDN'T HAVE THE SLIGHTEST IDEA WHAT THEY WERE DOING WHEN THEY ATTEMPTED TO FAKE THE MONEY ORDER AND SEND IT TO CHICAGO IN JUST 24 HOURS!
Boy, what a bunch of goofball plotters you've got there, Jimbo! Including the dunceheads at DPD who made Buell Frazier and Linnie Mae Randle create from thin air a paper bag--and then the Goober Pyle-like cops apparently told them TO SAY THAT THE BAG WAS ONLY 27 INCHES LONG!
Even Ernest T. Bass wasn't this stupid, Jim! But evidently the DPD was, right?
And then there's the goofiest part of DiEugenio's theory of all:
The plotters are setting up ONLY OSWALD from the Book Depository....but these plotters (with a combined I.Q. of dirt) decide it would be a great "single patsy" plan to go ahead and shoot President Kennedy FROM SEVERAL DIFFERENT LOCATIONS in Dealey Plaza.
Luckily, though, the plotters with IQs of really dumb dirt didn't need to worry about their multiple NON-OSWALD bullets striking any limo victims--because, thank the Maker, the United States Government AND the Dallas Police were right on the scene to buttress the one-patsy, multi-gun plot....with the DPD and the Warren boys, luckily, WANTING TO FRAME THE EXACT SAME PATSY NAMED OSWALD THAT THE PLOTTERS (with IQs of dirt) WERE TRYING TO FRAME PRIOR TO NOV. 22!
Those goofball plotters must have cleaned up in Vegas, because they were the luckiest plotters ever to conspire to kill a President. Bar none.
LEE FARLEY SAID:
What evidence is there that the wallet was Tippit's?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Lee,
We can know that the wallet on Tenth Street was not Oswald's.
How?
Because if it had been Oswald's, then that fact would have been provided by SOMEBODY on the DPD in their reports AFTER THE SAME GUY (OSWALD) WAS CHARGED WITH TIPPIT'S MURDER.
Don't you think a piece of evidence like THE KILLER'S WALLET BEING FOUND RIGHT NEXT TO THE MURDER VICTIM would be a pretty valuable and solid piece of evidence for the cops to mention?
But they didn't--even though (per many CTers) those SAME COPS were actually trying to frame Oswald for Tippit's murder! In a situation like that one, the crooked cops would have certainly been propping up the fake Oswald wallet for everybody to see. And yet they STILL said not a word about it.
And the reason they didn't say a word about it is because the wallet being examined by the police in Reiland's film was COMPLETELY IMMATERIAL to the Tippit murder investigation. It might not have been "found" on the ground at all. But if it was, it certainly was not Lee Oswald's wallet (or a fake variation thereof).
David Von Pein
August 16, 2010
