PAUL TREJO SAID:
In 2002, Thomas Mallon published a book entitled Mrs. Paine's Garage which Ruth Paine herself approves.
Aside from this book, the theories and rumors that have circulated about her have always intrigued me. She is sometimes regarded as a CIA agent -- a conspirator to kill JFK -- a member of a Quaker-Unitarian conspiracy within the CIA (George Michael Evica) and even a lesbian who drove LHO to kill JFK out of insane jealousy (William Manchester).
So much nonsense has been written about Ruth Hyde Paine, that I want to start a catalog of all the rumors. At the same time, I want to -- gently -- propose my own theory of Ruth Paine, as follows:
IMHO, Ruth Paine was an innocent bystander in the JFK murder. She was a Quaker who believed in the USA and in Christian Charity. She truly felt pity for Marina Oswald's plight in 1963, since Marina was pregnant and Lee could not hold down a steady job.
[Read more of Paul Trejo's thoughts HERE.]
DAVID VON PEIN SAID THIS.
JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID:
The world is finally getting to know who the Paines really are.
And it ain't pretty.
PAUL TREJO SAID:
My goodness, people, what a lot of rumor and innuendo!
This is the same kind of logic that convicted Lee Harvey Oswald of the JFK assassination!
IN POINT OF FACT:
(1) Just because Allen Dulles' lover, Mary Bancroft, was best friends with Ruth Paine's mother-in-law, this doesn't make Ruth Paine into a CIA Agent.
(2) Just because Ruth Paine's relatives were associated with the CIA, even *this* doesn't make Ruth Paine into a CIA Agent.
(3) The nonsense about "filing cabinets" of Communists found in Ruth Paine's garage is worth nothing until somebody shows a PHOTOGRAPH of these "filing cabinets" and nobody has ever done so. Rumors have a way of expanding indefinitely.
(4) How about some EMPIRICAL evidence, people, if you want to accuse Ruth Paine of anything at all?
(5) Like y'all, I believe Lee Harvey Oswald was a patsy -- but unlike y'all I don't just go around blaming everybody in sight of being a CIA Agent, or just blaming the CIA for the JFK murder because Jim Garrison did, and its so easy, since the CIA doesn't sue for libel.
(6) If I were Ruth Paine's legal counsel, I'd advise her to start suing people for libel whenever they accuse her falsely -- then I think we'd see far fewer WILD theories about her.
(7) Ruth Paine is one of the most lied-to people of her generation. Not only did the Warren Commission lie to her -- but also Lee Harvey Oswald lied to her, Marina Oswald lied to her, and her own husband, Michael Paine, lied to her.
(8) Ruth Paine is a Quaker woman, and active in Charity. That's Ruth Paine. That sums her up.
(9) These wild theories about her being in the CIA are simply rumors until hard proof is offered (such as photographs). Please tell me you can see that; and that I'm not dealing with infinite prejudice here.
Regards,
--Paul Trejo
JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID:
Paul,
To go through the above and show what you leave out, or ignore, or distort, would be a laborious exercise that would just leave us all going in circles. .... But to name just a few:
The Baron later confessed that he met with Oswald at the behest of the CIA. But further, Ruth then lied about how many times she met with George. (Destiny Betrayed, pgs. 194-95)
Secondly, Sylvia [Hoke, Ruth Paine's sister] did not live in Falls Church at the time. Though this is what Ruth wanted Garrison to think.
Third, Ruth was accused by the Secret Service of being a CIA asset. This was what Marina told Garrison's grand jury as to why they did not want her to associate with Ruth anymore. Later on in the civil war in Nicaragua, many people there accused Ruth of being CIA. So much so, they would not associate with her. (ibid, p. 199)
Finally, what the Paines did to Oswald was not at all Christian charity.
In fact, not only did the SS think Ruth wrote the Walker letter, but the first person to accuse Oswald of being involved in the Walker shooting was Mike Paine. And this was the evening of the assassination. (Reclaiming Parkland, p. 83)
PAUL TREJO SAID:
It's amazing to me how people try to look down on Ruth Paine.
[...]
It boggles my mind why anybody would want to impute Evil Intentions to this Christian heart.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Because many (or most) conspiracy theorists prefer fantasy over facts and the truth.
No CTer has ever come within a thousand miles of proving that Ruth Hyde Paine did anything wrong at all. And no CTer has ever proved (and never will, because the idea is incredibly stupid) that Mrs. Paine served as Lee Oswald's "handler" in late 1963 -- which is hilarious in the first place -- what did RUTH HERSELF do to advance the plot along? She certainly did NOT "plant" Oswald in the Depository. That fact has been proven beyond all doubt.
Conspiracists see sinister "CIA connections" all over the place. But none of them ever go beyond the conjecture stage--and they never will, because Ruth Paine wasn't with the CIA.
The motto endorsed by JFK conspiracy theorists is in full bloom when it comes to Ruth Paine ----> ACCUSE NOW; PROVE NEVER.
IN ANOTHER DISCUSSION [THIS ONE],
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
None of [the] crap DiEugenio [has ever written] comes even close to showing Ruth Paine (or Michael Paine) had anything to do with a conspiracy to murder John Kennedy and/or frame Lee Oswald for that murder.
DiEugenio's pathetic attempts to trash Mrs. Paine are sickening.
I only wish I could persuade Ruth to start a slander lawsuit. She'd win, hands down. Does anybody have Ruth's phone number? Maybe I'll give her a call.
PAUL TREJO SAID ALL THIS.
PAUL TREJO LATER SAID:
David, two things.
First, I truly appreciate your sympathetic approach to Ruth Paine. I agree with you fully on that.
Secondly, however, I want to ask you kindly, with all due respect, to please help me tone down the ad hominem attacks on this thread.
Jim DiEugenio has a following, and so a bar room brawl is a possibility in this thread -- and that only wastes time and space.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
CTers like DiEugenio, who continually throw slings and arrows at Ruth and Michael Paine without a stitch of evidence to back up their slanderous theories, deserve all the criticism and scorn that can possibly be heaped upon them. (IMO.)
HERE'S what Ruth Paine said in 2003 after hearing that Marina Oswald thinks Ruth was part of a conspiracy. ....
"A lot of people will just believe what they're gonna believe. And there's nothing much I can do about it." -- Ruth Paine; 2003
Also see:
DVP-Video-Audio-Archive.blogspot.com/Ruth Paine Videos
PAUL TREJO SAID:
David, so far I'm finding you to be a valuable resource. You don't jump to conclusions, and you don't blindly follow Jim Garrison.
Jim Garrison made some great historical contributions, IMHO, like linking LHO with Guy Banister at 544 Camp Street. That's historical. But aside from that Jim Garrison led the field in jumping to conclusions.
As for Ruth Paine, I hope to convince her, through threads like this one, that there really was a JFK conspiracy -- namely -- that General Walker organized the Dallas Radical Right to "greet" JFK in Dallas as they had "greeted" Adlai Stevenson only one month previous.
I'm confident that Ruth Paine was concerned about her Christian Charity, and about Marina Oswald and her babies, and about taking care of her own babies -- and this took up all of her time.
When it comes to the local politics of Dallas Texas, with a focus on the right-wing extremism of General Walker -- I believe that Ruth Paine was blissfully ignorant of it -- although I believe that Michael Paine knew *far* more than he told the Warren Commission, or Ruth Paine, or anybody.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
But how does such a pre-arranged "Radical Right greeting", even if it were true, segue into pro-Castro leftist Lee Harvey Oswald killing President Kennedy from the TSBD on November 22?
Do you think General Walker himself arranged for Lee Oswald to get hired at the Depository in October? Which would also have to mean that Walker was involved in a miraculous "Seeing Into The Future" conspiracy with Linnie Mae Randle, since it was Randle, not Ruth Paine, who was really the person most responsible for providing anyone on Fifth Street with any information about a possible job opening at the TSBD.
Or do you think Walker conceived of a plot against JFK after October 15?
Either way, it sounds like a lot of speculation, innuendo, and rumor to me regarding any Walker participation, Paul. The very things you criticize Jim DiEugenio of engaging in.
PAUL TREJO SAID:
Well David, it's a good question. Let's see how I might approach that.
If I could speak to Ruth Paine today, I'd tell her that LHO was never a pro-Castro leftist. By the way, Ruth Paine never heard LHO mention Cuba or Castro even one time.
But she did hear LHO talk a lot about Marxism. Yet LHO continually insisted he wasn't a Communist. That's important. Also, LHO never joined the Communist Party, the Socialist Worker's Party, or the FPCC. Yet he said he was a Marxist.
Jim Garrison -- for all his faults -- correctly showed the LHO was never a leader of the FPCC in New Orleans (as the Media continually report about him to this very day). Rather, LHO was a leader of a Fake FPCC in New Orleans, led by ultra-right-wing fanatic, Guy Banister. I congratulate Jim Garrison for this discovery.
I'd point out that Alfred Rosenberg and Joseph Goebbels, the famous Nazis,once followed Marx and Socialism -- so, one could be a Marxist and be ANYTHING -- not necessarily a Communist or even a Leftist.
I think that the TSBD placement of the Patsy was entirely accidental. I know that sounds novel, but remember that Gerry Patrick Hemming's rifle was also picked up by the Dallas Police on November 22nd. There were many other Patsies already set-up to take the fall -- unbeknownst to them. If Oswald had been out of town, there would have been others.
Yet I do believe that General Walker tracked LHO ever since April 1963. This is because Walker knew LHO was his would-be assassin on 10 April 1963, as he told Senator Frank Church in 1975:
http://pet880.com/images/19750623_EAW_to_Frank_Church.pdf
But if the Randles were involved with General Walker, it would have been her husband, I think -- and we should ask which one was a member of the Dallas group, "Friends of Walker." There were several women in that group, but Linnie Mae doesn't fit the profile, IMHO.
The resigned General Edwin Walker had control of several County and City workers, and many Dallas Police officers, through his leadership role in the Dallas Minutemen, the Dallas Citizen's Council, the NIC, the local John Birch Society, and the "Friends of Walker." Walker was a force to be reckoned with in Dallas -- and people who don't know that simply don't know Dallas history.
I think that General Walker conceived of a plot against JFK as early as April 1963 -- shortly after LHO's shooting at him. Walker thought that RFK had sent LHO to kill him. We know this from Walker's personal papers -- including the article in the German newspaper on 11/29/1963.
http://pet880.com/images/19631129_Deutsche_NZ.jpg
From April forward, General Walker plotted to make LHO his Patsy.
General Walker could have killed JFK in Miami, in DC or in Chicago if he saw a clear path -- but Dallas was his home town -- where the path was the clearest. As soon as the annoucement was made of a JFK visit, preparations just fell into place with military precision.
I'm not operating on speculation and innuendo, David -- but on Walker's personal papers, as well as on a new book that came out last month by Dr. Jeffrey Caufield, entitled, General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy (2015). Actually, I've been building my theory for about ten years now, and I've enjoyed help from Dr. Caufield for the past three years.
A segment of the Dallas Police killed JFK, and they were led by General Walker. That's my theory. J. Edgar Hoover feared a left-wing backlash, and riots in the streets during the Cold War, so he invented the "Lone Nut" theory to blame one person (it did not matter who) so that the matter would not turn into street riots between the Right and Left, risking USSR interference and WW3.
LBJ, Earl Warren and Allen Dulles all agreed with J. Edgar Hoover's strategy for National Security. That's why we were told we had to wait 75 years for the Full Truth of the JFK murder. That's why there are still Top Secret documents about the JFK murder still being held by the ARRB to this very day.
The Lone Nut theory is plainly wrong. To that degree I must agree with James DiEugenio. But the CIA isn't the guilty party. Nor is Ruth Paine.
This is the message I would like to get through to Ruth Paine today.
JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID:
Paul,
In your haste to try and show I don't know what I am talking about, you went ahead and quoted the wrong edition of my book in post 18.
In almost every quote from DB, I have differentiated between the two editions by saying its a reissue, or the second edition, or the 2012 edition of Destiny Betrayed.
Somehow you missed all of that. Which, from a scholar of Hegel, I find hard to buy into.
Since you have become so friendly with DVP, why don't you keep your discussion with him by reading his book. There is only one edition of that out there. So you can't say you confused it with any other.
REPRISE....
PAUL TREJO SAID:
A segment of the Dallas Police killed JFK, and they were led by General Walker.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Boy, that Edwin A. Walker was sure one lucky SOB, wasn't he? He was plotting to set up Oswald as a patsy back in April '63 (per Mr. Trejo), and LHO just happens to get the TSBD job on Oct. 15 (with the help of someone who cannot possibly be looked upon as a "co-conspirator", Mrs. Linnie Mae Randle of Irving).
And then, on top of all that, Lee Harvey Oswald decides he's going to act like a very guilty person on 11/22/63 shortly after 12:30 PM.
You've got to admit, Paul, good fortune like that doesn't come along every day of the week. General Walker must have had TWO crystal balls working for him in the summer and fall of 1963. Maybe three.
Tell me, Paul, what makes YOUR theory re: Walker any more FACTUAL and any LESS SPECULATIVE than any OTHER theory offered up by any other conspiracy theorist?
Have you got any hard evidence---as opposed to just outright speculation and guesswork? I certainly didn't see anything besides speculation and conjecture in your post here.
And General Walker's papers hardly qualify as proof he had JFK killed.
Thank you.
David Von Pein
October 16-18, 2015
