JFK ASSASSINATION ARGUMENTS
(PART 992)


JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID:

You don't want to deal with new evidence which shows the rifle was never ordered or picked up. Just like Vince [Bugliosi] did not.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Complete garbage. There is no "new" evidence that proves your goofy "No Rifle Was Ordered" theory, Jimmy. Only the CT INTERPRETATION of the Klein's evidence. And it's an interpretation that's about as believable as the moonbat "No Airplanes Hit The World Trade Center" theories. It's THAT ridiculous. You should be thoroughly embarrassed at having written the following words -- "I don't think Oswald had anything to do with the rifle transaction." [J. DiEugenio; 8/5/15]

But evidently no theory is too fringe-like for Mr. DiEugenio. He's proven that fact over and over again ----> 22 Stupid Things James DiEugenio Believes

Joe Ball's 1964 retort to Mark Lane concerning Oswald's rifle purchase is just as true today as it was then. It's a great quote, and completely accurate:

"I've never heard such a major distortion of what is actually a conclusive fact." -- Joseph A. Ball; 12/4/64





GARRY PUFFER SAID:

DVP,
Prove that the rifle was paid for, please.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Garry, the proof that the rifle was paid for lies in the fact that Klein's Sporting Goods MAILED THE RIFLE TO OSWALD'S POST OFFICE BOX. That proves that somebody must have paid for it.

Do you think Klein's would have shipped a piece of its merchandise to Dallas P.O. Box 2915 (or anywhere) without Klein's first having received payment for that merchandise? That'd be kind of crazy, wouldn't it?

I mentioned this very same thing to Garry Puffer less than two months ago in this June 2015 Amazon.com forum post. But I guess Garry's memory isn't too good anymore.

Plus, Waldman Exhibit No. 7 (the Klein's internal order form for Oswald's rifle transaction) indicates the dollar figure of "$21.45 M.O. [Money Order]" in the box marked "TOTAL AMOUNT ENCLOSED".



So Klein's, therefore, did receive $21.45 via a money order from someone prior to Klein's mailing the rifle package to P.O. Box 2915 in Dallas on March 20, 1963.

Conspiracy theorists, of course, can continue to argue that the "someone" who sent that $21 money order to Klein's wasn't really Lee Harvey Oswald (aka A. Hidell). But given the additional paperwork that exists concerning the Klein's rifle transaction, I don't think that those CTers have a very good case. With that additional paperwork including Commission Exhibit No. 773 (the magazine coupon sent to Klein's by Oswald) and Commission Exhibit No. 788 (the $21.45 money order that Oswald also mailed to Klein's on March 12, 1963).







GARRY PUFFER SAID:

Prove it was mailed, please.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Oh, for God's sake. Get real. This is nonsense. You're just being deliberately silly now. That's pretty obvious. And why are you denying the obvious?

How much documentation is needed for CTers to give up their "Oswald Never Ordered The Rifle" whining? Or is there no limit at all?

I have a feeling that CTers would only be satisfied (maybe) if documentary filmmaker Robert Drew had filmed each of the mailmen who handled Oswald's rifle package as it made its way from Klein's in Chicago to the post office in Dallas.

(But even a Robert Drew film could be faked or altered, couldn't it?) :-)


GARRY PUFFER SAID:

22 outlandish things Davey-poo Von Pein believes. If you can wrap your head around this, Von Pein actually believes the following nonsense:

1) Oswald shot at Gen. Walker even though Walker was shot at using a 30.06 steel-jacketed bullet

2) Oswald shot Officer Tippit even though Tippit was dead by 1:07 and Oswald was nearly a mile away at 1:04

3) Oswald shot JFK even though Jesse Curry was not willing to say there was any proof of that (but DVP knows better than Curry, of course)

4) That one bullet caused 7 wounds in two men, hit ribs and bone and came out looking virtually unscathed

5) That JFK's anterior neck wound was an exit wound even though all medical personnel who saw it dispute that and even though it was 3-5 mm whereas WC tests showed M-C exit wounds are in the 10 mm range

6) That Oswald picked up a pistol mailed to him even though the proper forms were not kept

7) That Oswald picked up a rifle mailed to him even though the proper forms were not kept

8) That the backyard photos are real even though the nose shadow remains the same and the heads from the different poses can be superimposed to show they are exactly the same photo - he believes this because a photo panel said they were not forgeries and we all know that panels of experts can never be wrong

9) That Marina can be used to justify some bit of data even though the WC and HSCA knew her to be a serial liar whose stories changed day to day

10) No one impersonated Oswald in Mexico City even though everyone else seems to be aware of this impersonation

11) That no one could forge Oswald's handwriting even though experts validated the "Mr. Hunt" note which later was acknowledged a forgery

12) That Ruth Paine was merely a kind Quaker lady even though her CIA connections seem to have been well known to many people at that time

13) That Clay Shaw did not commit perjury when he denied in court that he was a CIA asset even though the CIA later admitted he did work for them

14) That there was no interference from the CIA and FBI in the Garrison investigation and trial even though everyone else knows there was

15) That the bullets "discovered" in Oswald's pocket two hours after his arrest were there all along and were not planted by the DPD even though they show bullet slide corrosion and Oswald owned no bullet slide

16) That the DPD would file two detailed reports of the Mauser found in the TSBD if it had not been found but was a Mannlicher-Carcano instead

17) That a person would own a rifle and a pistol and have no gun cleaning equipment

18) That the main goal of the plotters was to frame a lone assassin even though that is merely an assumption made after the fact and used over and over as one of the lamest arguments imaginable

19) That Capt. Fritz had a good reason for running ahead when Oswald was being taken through the basement instead of remaining as a protective shield, which was the point of his being in front

20) That the autopsy photos are genuine even though the autopsy photographer said they aren't

21) That the X-rays are genuine even though we have proof of forgery

22) That the autopsy report is genuine even though Humes destroyed not only his notes but the first report


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Garry now wants to pretend that those 22 things (aka myths) he itemized haven't already been explained by LNers in a reasonable manner 1,001 times before.

Keep pretending, Garry. After all, it's all you can do at this point.

This myth below is my favorite (and a relatively new fairy tale too; did DiEugenio invent this one, or did he get it from one of the many conspiracy-happy authors he loves to quote so dearly?)....

"15) That the bullets "discovered" in Oswald's pocket two hours after his arrest were there all along and were not planted by the DPD even though they show bullet slide corrosion and Oswald owned no bullet slide."

Absolutely hilarious. Now we've got kooks claiming the unfired bullets in Oswald's pants pocket were "planted". And for what possible purpose again?

Oh yes, I forgot---the patsy framers got bored and decided to plant needless and useless unfired bullets in Oswald's trousers.

How can Garry not be beet red after writing that #15 item?

~shrug~


GARRY PUFFER SAID:

The idea that a murder subject is allowed to walk around with bullets in his pocket for two hours is too silly for words.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Yeah. Those bullets were really dangerous objects without a gun to put them into, weren't they, Garry? And with Oswald in handcuffs too.

No, the silly thing is to even begin to believe that the cops would have had any desire to "plant" 5 unfired bullets on suspect Oswald.

But CTers have a patent on "silly". In fact, it's stamped on their driver's licenses in most U.S. states.

And I guess Garry Puffer and Jim DiEugenio (and other CTers too) have added DPD detective Elmer Boyd to their Liars List with respect to the five unfired bullets that Boyd said he himself took out of Lee Harvey Oswald's pocket on 11/22/63 [at 7 H 126]....

JOSEPH BALL. Before you went into the showup, did you search Oswald?

ELMER L. BOYD. Yes; I did.

Mr. BALL. And what did you find?

Mr. BOYD. I found five .38 shells, I believe it was five.

Mr. BALL. Live? Live shells?

Mr. BOYD. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. What did you do with them?

Mr. BOYD. Well, I put them in an envelope and put them with the rest of the property up there to be turned in.

Mr. BALL. Did you put any mark on them?

Mr. BOYD. Let me see I can look and see.

Mr. BALL. I will show you Commission Exhibit 592 in an envelope, will you take a look at that--at the cartridges?

Mr. BOYD. Yes---I got my mark on them.

Mr. BALL. You have your mark on all five of them?

Mr. BOYD. I have my mark on the first three---yes, sir---I have my mark on all of them.

Mr. BALL. On all five of them?

Mr. BOYD. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. You put those marks on there, did you?

Mr. BOYD. Yes, I did.

Mr. BALL. Now, looking those cartridges over, can you tell me whether these five cartridges, which constitute Commission Exhibit 592, are the cartridges which you took from Oswald?

Mr. BOYD. Yes, they are.

Mr. BALL. And where were you when you put the mark on them?

Mr. BOYD. I was back up in my office.

Mr. BALL. When you first took them from Oswald, where did you put them?

Mr. BOYD. I put them in my pocket.


JON G. TIDD SAID:

What's so hard about believing the Dallas cops fudged as to the bullets allegedly found on Oswald?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

But what for, Jon? Why would they even WANT to "fudge" anything relating to the five unfired bullets that Detective Elmer Boyd said he took out of Lee Oswald's pocket?

The DPD already had the bullet shells at the Tippit murder scene and the six unfired bullets in the chamber of the gun they wrested out of Oswald's hand. Not to mention the revolver itself. So why would an additional five bullets be needed to convict Oswald? Makes no sense to me.

And I completely disagree with this statement you also made, Jon:

"The whole story of Oswald's having a revolver or clip-fed semi-automatic on November 22 is rife with question marks."

The key to knowing that Officer Tippit's killer positively did not shoot Tippit with any kind of an automatic weapon is the location of where the bullet shells were found after the shooting.

Those shells weren't found right next to Tippit's patrol car--which, of course, IS where Tippit's murderer was located when he shot Tippit--right there by the car.

The shells, instead, were found by THREE separate civilian witnesses near the corner of Tenth Street and Patton Avenue. If Tippit's killer had used an automatic, the shells would have been automatically ejected right there by Tippit's police car.

Therefore, how can conspiracy theorists who think Tippit was shot with an automatic gun possibly even begin to (logically) explain how those four expended bullet shells could have been found at the corner of 10th & Patton if J.D. Tippit was really shot many yards up the road on Tenth Street (which, of course, he was, according to every witness at the scene)?

Plus, we can know that Tippit's killer did not have in his possession an automatic weapon by also examining the first-day (November 22) statements of witnesses Virginia Davis and Barbara Davis. Each of those Davis girls said in her 11/22/63 affidavit that the man they each saw cutting across their yard right after the shooting occurred was dumping shells from the gun he was holding. And that means the gunman was carrying a revolver, not an automatic.

Both Davis girls, who each positively identified the gunman they saw as Lee Harvey Oswald, used the same word in their individual affidavits that they filled out and signed on November 22nd -- "unloading":

Virginia Davis -- "I saw the boy cutting across our yard and he was unloading his gun."

Barbara Davis -- "I saw this man walking across my front yard unloading a gun."


BEN HOLMES SAID:

Okay... If you're telling the truth... then simply cite the previous LNTer answer to Capt Fritz's reason for moving out way ahead of Oswald. My guess is that you won't. So I'll just save both of us the trouble, and label you a liar.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Captain Fritz was helping to clear the path ahead of Oswald. Fritz can even be seen shoving a man aside with his hand just a second before Ruby fired his shot:



But to think Fritz deliberately opened up a gap so that Ruby could slip in and shoot Oswald is a theory that's just about as nutty as Garry Puffer's 15th item on his above list of silliness.

The whole "Fritz plotted to have Oswald killed" thing is just too silly to even contemplate. But since neither I (nor any other LNer on the planet) can possibly fully explain exactly WHY Captain Fritz was walking a little bit out in front of Oswald in the DPD basement, that "unknowable" is apparently something that CTers think gives them the freedom to speculate that Fritz was part of some prearranged plot to have Lee Harvey Oswald murdered in the basement of City Hall on 11/24/63.

But, of course, CTers are in the exact same boat as LNers on this one --- because the CTers can also not possibly PROVE any theory they have with respect to why Captain Fritz was walking ahead of Oswald that day. The CTers can only do what they always do with every single "unknowable" aspect of the whole JFK case --- they speculate. Nothing more.

And, IMO, it's groundless (and laughable) speculation.


DEX OLSEN SAID:

For enough money, Davy, history has proved even the POTUS will do unimaginable things. And compared with Fritz giving Ruby an unobstructed target, it's not nearly as far-fetched as you're making it sound.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

It's far-fetched from the following standpoint all by itself....

The DPD would not want to DELIBERATELY give themselves a permanent black eye by opening themselves up to severe public criticism by their utter failure in being able to protect the life of the most famous prisoner they would ever see at City Hall.

You really think Fritz and Company would have wanted to stain themselves in such a manner for all time---ON PURPOSE?!

Time for a Reality Check, Dex.


DAVID VON PEIN ALSO SAID:

I've always been a bit baffled by the crackpot conspiracy theorists who argue that Lee Harvey Oswald never ordered or paid for or ever took possession of Mannlicher-Carcano Rifle No. C2766 in 1963.

It seems to me that even the rabid CTers in the "Anybody But Oswald" fraternity would be better off by just admitting the obvious---that Oswald did purchase that rifle. Because the CTers could then pretend that the conspirators who framed Oswald did so by using OSWALD'S OWN RIFLE.

Isn't that a better theory than the loopy "Oswald Never Ordered The Rifle At All" theory? Via that theory of LHO never ordering the weapon, the CTers are then forced to pretend that the entire rifle transaction and the paperwork for that transaction was falsely manufactured from the ground up!

And yet that type of "Everything's Fake" nonsense is supposedly more believable than just conceding that Rifle C2766 was Oswald's own rifle and some plotters framed LHO with it on 11/22/63? Bizarre.

But that's the CT world, I guess --- Bizarre.

David Von Pein
August 5, 2015
August 6, 2015
August 6, 2015
August 7-8, 2015


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