JFK ASSASSINATION ARGUMENTS
DAVID JOSEPHS SAID:
DVP doesn't post evidence but only his opinion of what it says and means.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Bull. I constantly "post evidence". Tons of it. The problem, in my opinion, isn't with "the evidence". The huge problem with the JFK case is the conspiracy believers who are constantly evaluating that evidence in very bizarre ways.
The evidence IS the evidence. And as I've stated numerous times, nobody can possibly argue that the PHYSICAL EVIDENCE on the table today (just as it was in 1963-1964) all points to ONE single individual---and that individual's initials are LHO.
Conspiracists can moan all day and all year about how they THINK that evidence has no chain of custody and has all been faked to frame the alleged patsy -- but not a single piece of the physical evidence in the JFK and J.D. Tippit cases has been PROVEN to be fraudulent or phony or planted or substituted.
A lot of people will argue with me about my last statement above, but that statement will still be a fact regardless of any CTer's protestations.
And the argument I've heard recently on this forum about how the evidence must be subjected to "authentication" in a court of law (or else we have no choice but to look at all of it sideways and suspect the police and FBI tampered with every last piece of it) is, IMO, a silly argument....because if people like Robert Frazier of the FBI told one lie after another in front of the Warren Commission (as forum member Robert Prudhomme has suggested lately), then why on Earth would anybody think the unvarnished TRUTH would have come out of Mr. Frazier's mouth at Oswald's trial?
Do CTers who desire "authentication via cross-examination at a court trial" actually think that if the kind of frame-up against Lee Harvey Oswald existed immediately after the assassination on 11/22/63 (which many CTers think did occur), and if there had been a massive campaign orchestrated by the DPD and the FBI to switch around the evidence in order to pin the two November 22 murders on Mr. Oswald, then the police and FBI officials would have gotten up on the witness stand at Oswald's trial (had there been one) and ADMITTED to the world that the evidence they collected and/or examined had no chain of possession and was fraudulent/fake evidence? (Yeah, right.)
Point being --- If people like Robert A. Frazier were willing to tell many lies about the evidence when questioned by the Warren Commission, then those same officials would certainly have told the very same lies at Oswald's actual court trial.
DAVID JOSEPHS SAID:
When you find over and over and over that the sources do not corroborate the conclusions and in fact usually contradict them instead, maybe you can get a clearer picture of what DVP and those of his ilk are doing.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Once again, I think it's a matter of WHO is doing the evaluating of the Warren Report and of the WC testimony. Based on the CTers I've talked with over the years, there are very few conspiracy theorists who are capable of FAIRLY evaluating the evidence in the JFK and Tippit cases.
Let me cite two examples....
First, the "paper bag" evidence and the testimony given by Buell Wesley Frazier and Linnie Mae Randle:
We all know that Frazier's and Randle's estimates for the length of Oswald's paper bag that he carried to work on the morning of November 22nd, if they were estimates that were spot-on accurate, would mean that Oswald could not have taken his rifle to work that day in the paper sack observed by Frazier and Randle.
But what does a fair evaluation of ALL of the "paper bag" evidence lead to? Does it really lead to Oswald taking a SHORTER (27-inch) paper bag to work that day, with that bag turning up NOWHERE in the TSBD building or anywhere else? Or does a reasonable evaluation of the overall "paper bag" evidence tell us that it's very likely that the bag found on the sixth floor of the Depository (CE142) was, indeed, the SAME brown paper package that Mr. Frazier and Mrs. Randle observed in the hands of Lee Harvey Oswald on the morning of the 22nd of November?
Upon just a tiny bit of common-sense evaluation of the paper bag matter, it's painfully obvious that the "Sniper's Nest" bag in evidence today (CE142) is, in fact, almost certainly the same bag that Frazier and Randle saw Oswald carrying.
The alternative would be to believe that Oswald carried a shorter brown bag into work that day....with that bag vanishing off the planet before the end of the day (did the cops deep-six it? CTers probably think they did, without a granule of proof to back up such an allegation)....and then a LONGER (38-inch) brown bag, with NOTHING in it at all (but Lee's rifle was nearby on the same sixth floor), turns up underneath the spot where JFK's assassin was hiding--and that EMPTY bag happens to have two of LEE OSWALD'S PRINTS on it.
And what about those "curtain rods" that Lee said were in that bag he took to work? That's yet another part of the "paper bag" story that needs to be examined. And there can't be much doubt in any reasonable person's mind that Oswald told the curtain rod lie TWICE to Buell Frazier.
JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/Those Curtain Rods
So a proper evaluation of the paper bag evidence, coupled with just ordinary common sense, tells us that Frazier and Randle simply were in error when they said Oswald's bag was only about 27 inches long. To believe they nailed the length of that bag, when they had no reason to pay any amount of detailed attention to it whatsoever at the time they each observed it, is not a reasonable expectation, in my opinion.
JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/Oswald, His Rifle, And His Paper Bag
And as another example of how conspiracists improperly evaluate the evidence, there are the Tippit bullet shells:
There were FOUR shells found by THREE different civilian witnesses near the scene of Officer J.D. Tippit's murder. And two of those four shells did not pass through the hands of Officer J.M. Poe. Those two non-Poe shells have a solid "chain of possession" -- going from witnesses Barbara Davis and Virginia Davis to DPD officers Dhority and Doughty.
CTers sometimes try to argue that those two shells found by the Davis girls are tainted in some manner too. But those CTers are wrong. They are inventing a poor "chain of custody". But the chain is rock solid, with each officer's initials scratched into the respective bullet shells. (See Dale Myers' book for clear pictures of those shells with the proper markings on them.)
But CTers will generally ignore the key overall SUM TOTAL of facts regarding the Tippit shells:
1.) Only ONE gunman was dumping shells out of ONE single gun at the Tippit murder scene on 11/22/63.
2.) Two of the four shells that littered the Davises' yard at the corner of Tenth & Patton were not handled initially by Officer Poe, with those two shells being collected separately later in the day on November 22nd.
3.) Those two "non-Poe" shells were proven to have been ejected from the revolver owned and possessed by Lee H. Oswald.
4.) Oswald still had that revolver in his very own hands when he was arrested after fighting with the police in the Texas Theater just 35 minutes after Officer Tippit was killed.
5.) Several witnesses, including BOTH Davis girls, positively identified Lee Oswald as the gunman who was dumping shells on the ground right after Tippit was slain.
Given the above set of facts, it becomes virtually impossible for Oswald to be innocent of killing J.D. Tippit.
But many conspiracy theorists will simply ignore (or skew) the above set of "sum total" facts regarding the evidence in the Tippit murder. They will, instead, always focus their sole attention on the two "Poe shells", which the CTers will say could have been "switched" by the police because J.M. Poe didn't mark them. Or the CTers will ignore the dozen witnesses near the Tippit murder site who all IDed Oswald as the killer or as the one and only man fleeing the murder scene, with those conspiracists choosing instead to focus attention on the ONE witness (Acquilla Clemmons) who tends to contradict the other witnesses.
We all "pick and choose" our evidence sometimes. LNers do it too. I'll admit that. But the "picking and choosing" done by the conspiracy theorists when it comes to the murder of J.D. Tippit is farcical and downright disingenuous, especially when given the fact that the CTers' favorite "patsy" was caught red-handed with the Tippit murder weapon on him just a half-hour after Tippit was killed.
I'm now hearing some CTers claiming that Oswald didn't pull ANY GUN AT ALL from under his shirt in the Texas Theater. Which would mean, if that were true, that shoe salesman Johnny Brewer must have been a major force in the plot to frame Lee Oswald too (because Brewer has always said that he saw the gun in Oswald's hand as he fought with Officer McDonald in the theater). I mean, how much more "disingenuous" can it get?
So, those are just two examples (among many) of how I believe the conspiracy promoters have made a mockery out of the evidence (and the facts) in the Kennedy and Tippit murder cases.
DAVID JOSEPHS SAID:
All that matters in the end is whether Oswald did it or not - and completely alone at that. If we can prove this was not possible, which we have repeatedly - who did it doesn't really matter as much as who orchestrated the conspiracy.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
A conspiracy theorist's BELIEFS and SUPPOSITIONS do not substitute for the EVIDENCE which repeatedly comes back to yield one conclusion---Lee Harvey Oswald murdered JFK and J.D. Tippit.
Is it possible that Oswald had one or more helpers who aided him in carrying out the assassination in Dealey Plaza? Yes, it's possible. I've been on record for years in saying it's wise not to close the "conspiracy" door completely:
"Let's face it, we can never know with 100% certainty that someone didn't urge Oswald on in the days leading up to 11/22/63. I think it's very unlikely that anyone did aid him in any fashion at all....but, as Ken [Rahn] said, the door should be left open just a small crack, because it's just not possible to prove this particular "negative" to a 100% certainty (mainly thanks to a man named Jacob Rubenstein, who certainly didn't do the world any favors by walking down that basement ramp on Sunday)." -- DVP; July 29, 2007
But given Oswald's actions and movements and the manner in which he transported himself from one place to another on both November 21st and November 22nd, 1963, I think it's highly unlikely that Oswald had anyone at all helping him to plan and/or carry out the assassination of John Kennedy. His actions and movements on those two days in question certainly suggest that Lee Oswald was ON HIS OWN every step of the way in Dallas and Irving and on Beckley Avenue in Oak Cliff and on Tenth Street and on Jefferson Boulevard in front of Johnny Brewer's shoe store and any other place you can name where Oswald was located on November 21 and 22.
To put it another way -- If Lee Harvey Oswald had a helper, that helper was of NO HELP to Lee whatsoever when he needed help the most.
David Von Pein
February 12, 2015
Posted By: David Von Pein
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