JFK ASSASSINATION ARGUMENTS
(PART 1099)


BUD SAID:

Is Ben Holmes Stupid?

As some of you may know, Ben Holmes is a conspiracy monger who hides out (literally) at alt.conspiracy.jfk. In a recent exchange with John [McAdams] there, Ben called John a liar, and then went on to produce evidence proving what he said to be 100% correct. Here is the exchange...

John McAdams: "Actually, no. He [Bill Newman] thought the shots came from behind him."

Ben Holmes: "You're lying, John. (And although I know you'll snip this - You've been truly caught out on this one.) [Quoting Bill Newman:] "I thought the shot had come from the garden directly behind me, that it was on an elevation from where I was as I was right on the curb. I do not recall looking toward the Texas School Book Depository. I looked back in the vacinity [sic] of the garden.""

As anyone can plainly see, John said the witness said the shots came from behind him and Ben produced corroboration to what John said, yet still called him a liar.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Typical behavior from Ben Holmes, to be sure.

And it's remarkable how the CTers will twist and turn the comments (and/or testimony) of certain witnesses to suit their pro-conspiracy needs and desires--with William Newman being one such witness.

Newman, as discussed at these forums not long ago, is really a pretty decent witness for the "LN" side, when all is said and done, with Newman not supporting a "Knoll assassin" theory at all. He clearly marked a map in 1986 [seen below] with the location where he thought he heard the shots coming from--and the mark he put on that map isn't anywhere near the famous picket fence on the Knoll. Newman's mark is much closer to the TSBD, in fact:




video


PAT SPEER SAID:

It's probably just a misunderstanding. It seems possible Holmes thinks that when John said "the shots came from behind him", the "him" in the statement was Kennedy.

I know I've run into similar mix-ups over the years.


BUD SAID:

Kind of you to give Ben the benefit of the doubt. I wasn't trying to be kind to him.


ANTHONY MARSH SAID:

Why do you [DVP] ignore his [Bill Newman's] very first statement to Jay Watson? Is that because you don't know how to find videos on YouTube.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Ignored it? Are you serious, Marsh? I've had that Watson/Newman footage on my YouTube channels and websites for years (and not the REVERSED version of the videotape that you linked to, BTW; this version you provided has been reversed to [sneakily] make it look as though Bill Newman points to his right temple when talking about the head shot, vs. his left temple). Here's the properly oriented footage:

video


ANTHONY MARSH SAID:

We have discussed that reversal before. No mystery. And no huge conspiracy to put the entrance wound in the right temple. .... The solution is simple. Newman was holding onto his son who was sitting on his lap. And using his strong arm, so he only had his left arm free to point. It is not meant to be accurate.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Precisely. We're in total agreement as to why Bill Newman pointed to his left temple instead of pointing to his right temple. He only had his left hand free.

But you certainly didn't provide any "solution" for the weird "reversed" video that somebody posted on YouTube, which is a reversed video that makes it look as if Newman was pointing to his RIGHT temple.

Why on Earth would anyone want to reverse the video image of Newman? (I have a good idea as to the motive, but Marsh probably wouldn't agree with my theory at all. He never does. Right, Tony?)


ANTHONY MARSH SAID:

And he [Newman] is only pointing to where he saw the skull open up.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Precisely. We're in total agreement again. (But I'll bet my next month's CIA Disinfo check that Marsh will still find something to argue about here.)


ANTHONY MARSH SAID:

You make much ado about nothing to avoid discussing WHAT HE SAID.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

~chuckles warmly~

You're funnier than Jack Benny, Tony. You actually think I HAVEN'T discussed what Bill Newman said about shots coming from "directly behind me"?

I just linked to it in my last post. Maybe you missed it. Here it is again:

JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2010/11/bill-and-gayle-newman.html

And in the above-linked article, I want people to pay particular attention to the amazingly silly comments directed at me by David Lifton in July 2011. If you can believe it, a man who thinks that JFK's body was altered before the autopsy and who also thinks that ALL of the gunshots came from the FRONT of President Kennedy, actually had the gonads to say this to me:

"DVP is just a flat out liar. .... Guys like DVP are committed to a false reality, and will bend the English language to support their misconception. I really do believe he's just a garden variety liar." -- David S. Lifton

Only one word is appropriate after reading the above comments----

Unbe-freaking-lievable.


ANTHONY MARSH SAID:

He [Bill Newman] never said TSBD.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

I never said that Newman said "TSBD". Maybe you should quit saying I claimed any such thing regarding William E. Newman. Ya think?


ANTHONY MARSH SAID:

He [Newman] said hill. You lose.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Newman said "directly behind me", which, when taking Newman literally, is a location where (quite obviously) NO SHOTS CAME FROM.

You lose.


ANTHONY MARSH SAID:

I could find 2 or 3 kooks who can see the shooter behind the pergola. So what?

There's even one kook who says the shot came from Zapruder's camera. So what?

You want to start matching kooks?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Yes, precisely. And since we KNOW that no shots came from the "pergola" area where Newman said he heard shots, then Mr. Newman MUST HAVE BEEN INCORRECT in his assessment of where the shots originated.

That, Tony, is the WHOLE POINT. Newman was obviously wrong. So, therefore, why do CTers utilize him as a great "conspiracy" witness? He's not. And never was.

David Von Pein
November 9-10, 2011