CLIFF VARNELL SAID:
On this very Forum, you have stipulated to the following facts:
1) The bullet holes in JFK's clothes are 4 inches below the bottom of the collars.
2) The Dealey Plaza photos show no appreciable "bunch up" of JFK's jacket.
That you have the power to deny the significance of these stipulations doesn't change the fact you've debunked the SBT with your own observations.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Regardless of what I may have said to you in our previous forum conversations regarding photos taken PRIOR to the turn onto Elm Street, this photo below is the KEY picture with respect to JFK's "bunched up" jacket. And it's a picture that was snapped just seconds before Lee Oswald's second shot went through both President Kennedy and Governor Connally. And no reasonable person with even one functioning eyeball could possibly even begin to deny that there is most certainly some "bunching" of the jacket going on in this Robert Croft photograph:
CLIFF VARNELL SAID:
So when the limo turned onto Elm St., JFK's shirt and jacket spontaneously jumped several inches up his back? .... Your claim is idiotic on its face.
And anyone with a functioning eyeball can clearly see a normal amount JFK's shirt collar exposed -- which means the jacket collar was in a normal position at the base of JFK's neck.
You now want to claim that JFK's clothing was hiked up above the base of his neck -- without pushing up on the jacket collar!
Demonstrate that for us, David. How does 6+ inches of clothing get pushed up above the base of the neck without pushing up on the jacket collar?
Obviously impossible.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
If you can't tell that Mr. Kennedy's jacket is hiked up a bit in the Croft photo, pity on you, Cliff. Because the "bunching" or "hiked up" nature of JFK's jacket in that particular picture couldn't be any more obvious.
Cliff, you'd probably be better off jumping on the "Photo is fake" bandwagon regarding the Croft picture, rather than sticking to this odd stance:
"...the jacket collar was in a normal position at the base of JFK's neck [in the Croft photo]." -- C. Varnell; 8/30/14
Related "Bunching" Note.....
Just a few minutes (maybe less) before JFK entered Dealey Plaza, a man named Andre Leche took a home movie of the President's car on Main Street (his film wasn't discovered until November 2013), and President Kennedy's "bunched up" jacket is clearly visible in his film too (and in George Jefferies' film as well).
Frame from Leche's film:
CLIFF VARNELL SAID:
That shirt collar couldn't be visible unless the jacket collar was in a normal position.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Not true at all. The jacket collar could be "hiked up" a little bit and still have some of JFK's white shirt visible. Why you think such a thing is a complete impossibility only shows how desperate you are to trash the totally reasonable (and feasible) Single-Bullet Conclusion.
Plus: Why is it not possible in your world to have the collar portion of a person's jacket hiked up just SLIGHTLY and (at the same time) also have a different (lower) portion of that same person's jacket hiked up (or "bunched up") more than just SLIGHTLY?
In the world of Cliff "Everything In The Whole JFK Case Revolves Around Kennedy's Clothing" Varnell, the above scenario of having President Kennedy's COLLAR only raised (or "hiked") a little bit but a lower portion of his suit coat hiked up a bit MORE than "just slightly" is something that couldn't happen in a million years -- even though several photos taken of JFK in the Dallas motorcade PROVE beyond all doubt that that very thing I just described regarding JFK's jacket WAS occurring when Mr. Kennedy was riding in his limousine through the streets of Dallas, Texas, on November 22, 1963.
CLIFF VARNELL SAID:
Your observations destroy the SBT, David!
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
You couldn't be any sillier if you tried, Clifford.
David Von Pein
August 30, 2014
