[GRAMMAR NOTE -- All of Robert Harris' needless commas have been removed by DVP in the post below.]
ROBERT HARRIS SAID:
David, why is it that in the Altgens photo, taken at the equivalent of [Zapruder Film frame] 255, after at least two shots have been fired, we see so many smiling faces, with no-one screaming or diving to the ground?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Why would there necessarily have to be mass hysteria in Dealey Plaza at that time (circa Z255)?
At that point in the James Altgens picture, it's only been 5.2 seconds since Lee Harvey Oswald fired his first shot. Not exactly a long time, right Robert? And two Secret Service agents are, indeed, reacting to the sound of the gunfire by looking over their right shoulders.
But it's only been 1.7 seconds since anyone in the limousine was HIT by a bullet, which is hardly enough time for people to start reacting to the EFFECTS of the shots being fired (i.e., the wounding of people in Dealey Plaza).
ROBERT HARRIS SAID:
Why do we ONLY see such things after frame 285?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Because it was only after Z285 (and after Z313 actually) that the spectators realized what was truly happening in the Plaza -- i.e., that the President was being shot at.
Duh!
ROBERT HARRIS SAID:
Why did none of the Secret Service agents pull out a gun until after frame 285?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
The Secret Service men reacted somewhat slowly, yes. No denying that fact. But I don't really see how this inquiry bolsters your pet "Z285" theory though.
ROBERT HARRIS SAID:
Why did Clint Hill wait until after frame 285 to leap from the limo and state that he did so in direct reaction to a gunshot?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I'm sure his leaping from the running board of the SS car was, indeed, "in direct reaction to a gunshot". Obviously Hill's running toward the President's car was "in direct reaction to a gunshot", for Pete sake. What ELSE would have been the reason for his dramatic action that day?
But to state categorically that Clint Hill was "reacting" to a specific gunshot fired at precisely Z285 (as you theorize) is just plain silly and impossible to pin down with spot-on accuracy (as is the case with pretty much everything you purport with regard to your totally subjective analysis of the Zapruder Film and the witness statements in relation to your pet Z285 theory).
ROBERT HARRIS SAID:
Why did Bill Greer wait until just after 285 to slow the limo and spin around so fast that some critics thought his turns were humanly impossible?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Once more we're treated to Bob Harris' unique subjective look at things. In Harris' world, everything seems to revolve around his fictitious missed shot at exactly Z285 of the Zapruder Film.
In Bob's one-sided "Z285 world", there isn't even the slightest possibility that what we're seeing in the Z-Film just after frame #285 could be the limousine's occupants behaving in ways that might NOT indicate that they were each hearing a gunshot at precisely Z285.
In Bob's "Z285" world, the movements of Nellie Connally and Jacqueline Kennedy couldn't POSSIBLY be the movements and actions of two women who, just 3.33 seconds prior to Z285, heard a gunshot being fired from Lee Oswald's gun on the sixth floor of the Book Depository....with that single gunshot resulting in the husbands of both of those women being wounded by the same bullet....with the two women then reacting in a perfectly normal fashion by LEANING IN toward their respective wounded spouses.
The above scenario is simply IMPOSSIBLE in the Z285 world of Robert Harris.
Go figure.
ROBERT HARRIS SAID:
Why did Greer say he felt the "concussion" of the second shot as he was turned to the rear? And how do you explain why he didn't turn to the rear until well after 223??
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Once again, Mr. Harris is assigning ludicrous levels of ASSUMED AND PRESUMED SPOT-ON ACCURACY to the statements of certain Dealey Plaza witnesses.
We're only talking about a fraction more than THREE SECONDS IN REAL TIME between the time of the actual second shot fired (by Oswald at Z224) and Bob Harris' make-believe missed shot at Z285.
3.3 seconds, Bob!! That's all.
Anything you attribute to a missed shot at precisely Z285 can just as easily be attributed to Oswald's real second shot at Z224. The difference in real time is negligible.
But to Bob "Z285" Harris, 3.3 seconds is an amount of time that can be dissected and sliced to absolute perfection in the minds and testimony of EVERY SINGLE LIMO OCCUPANT.
Can you say "That's ridiculous"? I sure can when talking about this silly "Z285" subject that Bob Harris loves so much.
ROBERT HARRIS SAID:
Why did both Mrs. Kennedy and Mrs. Connally believe that their husbands were hit by a shot that came after Gov Connally began to shout, but before the explosive headwound?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
See THIS POST.
ROBERT HARRIS SAID:
And why did they both visibly react to that shot in perfect unison with Zapruder's, Greer's and Kellerman's reactions?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Coincidence. And as I mentioned above, the coincidence is fully explainable and understandable and reasonable in the case of Nellie's and Jackie's in-unison head movements (which Harris thinks is "ducking" from the sound of a gunshot, but it isn't).
ROBERT HARRIS SAID:
Why did Kellerman duck and simultaneously shield his ear at exactly the same instant that the others reacted?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Your "shield his ear" comment is pure speculation. And Kellerman's movements can easily be explained this way:
He was reaching for the radio microphone in front of him.
ROBERT HARRIS SAID:
Why did Brehm, J. Hill and Mary Moorman all remember multiple shots, beginning just as the limo passed in front of them?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Maybe because there WERE multiple shots being fired at just about that time. Oswald fired two shots after Z160 (at Z224 and Z313), and all three of those witnesses were pretty close to the limo during that Z224-Z313 timespan.
ROBERT HARRIS SAID:
Why did Greer say that the last shots were nearly simultaneous and Kellerman say they were like a "flurry"?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Kellerman's "flurry of shells/shots coming into the car" testimony is very easily explained:
He heard the effects of the head-shot bullet fragments striking the windshield and the chrome molding very near his seated position in the limousine. That is almost certainly the best explanation for Roy Kellerman's "flurry" testimony.
BTW, how did bullet fragments from Lee Oswald's gun (CE567 and CE569) get into the front seat area of the limo if, as you suggest, Lee Oswald didn't actually HIT any victims (or the car's interior) with any of his Mannlicher-Carcano bullets on November 22nd?
Were CE567/569 planted in the limo by evil cover-up agents after the assassination, Bob?
ROBERT HARRIS SAID:
Why did most witnesses recall that the final shots were closely bunched?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
And there were several who didn't recall such a thing, as I discuss here.
ROBERT HARRIS SAID:
Why is it that not even one law enforcement professional recalled the early shots being closer together than the final shots??
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
What difference does it really make?
Oh, I know to a person who loves the idea of a JFK conspiracy (like Robert Harris, for example) something like this makes a world of difference.
But the answers to the important questions HOW MANY SHOTS WERE FIRED? and WHERE DID THE SHOTS COME FROM? can be found by looking at the BEST EVIDENCE in the case when it comes to trying to answer those two inquiries.
And the following photos and charts (in tandem) contain that "Best Evidence", IMO:
+--+Number+Of+Shots.jpg)
+--+Location+Of+Shots.jpg)
ROBERT HARRIS SAID:
Why did Gov Connally not hear the shot that hit him?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Simple: Because that shot ACTUALLY HIT HIM. And he was no doubt physically struck by that bullet (CE399, of course) before the sound of that shot reached his ears. I think you'll find that it is not uncommon for a victim of a gunshot wound to not physically hear the shot that wounded him.
Connally Addendum----
Keep in mind that the totality of John Connally's testimony perfectly buttresses the single-assassin scenario and the Single-Bullet Theory particularly (whether Mr. Connally himself believed in the SBT or not).
John Connally, in 1967, even went so far as to admit that the SBT was certainly "possible" in his mind. More on that here.
ROBERT HARRIS SAID:
Why did no-one else in the limo hear that shot either?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
You're so entrenched in your belief of your made-up "Z285" missed shot that you will never ever be able to see that your theory rests solely on subjective and unprovable analysis of the Zapruder Film.
Of course people in the limo heard the shot that hit Governor Connally....that was Shot #2 from Lee Oswald's gun at Z224. But you, Bob Harris, have convinced yourself that those limo occupants were talking about some OTHER shot (your make-believe Z285 shot, I guess).
But, yes, of course the limo witnesses heard the shot that hit John Connally (except Mr. Connally himself, of course, as mentioned earlier).
ROBERT HARRIS SAID:
Why did his [John Connally's] wife only recall hearing ONE noise prior to him beginning to shout?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
If you fine-tune your analysis any further, you'll probably be able to convince yourself that Nellie Connally blinked her eyes exactly 17 times after hearing the first shot but before she heard her husband shout "No, no, no".
ROBERT HARRIS SAID:
Why did no-one in the limo recall more than one early shot and why did they exhibit no startle reactions prior to frame 285? And why DID they exhibit simultaneous startle reactions beginning a third of a second AFTER 285?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
They didn't. That's only your singularly subjective look at things. I doubt that one other person on the planet would evaluate the movements of the limo occupants the exact same way that Robert "Z285" Harris has done.
ROBERT HARRIS SAID:
Why did Dr. Luis Alvarez conclude that Zapruder and Greer were startled by a loud noise at precisely frame 285?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I'll take this opportunity to quote the author of the JFK Bible:
"The CBS experiment [in 1967] proves that a gunshot will normally cause a cameraman’s neuromuscular system to go into, as Dr. [Luis] Alvarez put it, “a temporary spasm.”
So the three gunshots that day [November 22, 1963] would have almost assuredly caused a startled reaction in Zapruder and, hence, a blur on his film. And we find blurs around Z160 (the first shot), around Z220–228 (which clearly coincides with Kennedy’s and Connally’s reactions to the second shot), and Z313 (the third shot).
The demonstrable defect in blur or jiggle analysis is that although a gunshot will produce a blur (and hence, the absence of a blur is very strong circumstantial evidence of the absence of a gunshot), a blur obviously does not necessarily have to be caused by a gunshot.
Any number of other things--a cough, an unintentional nudge (Zapruder’s secretary was right next to him), a gust of wind, movement of Zapruder’s feet, even his efforts to keep an object in frame--could also cause a blur.
Zapruder himself testified before the Warren Commission that his images weren’t very clear for the simple reason that his camera movements were magnified by the telephoto lens setting he was using. “Did you ever have binoculars,” he asked, “and every time you move, everything is exaggerated in the move? That’s one reason why they’re kind of blurred, the movement” (7 H 572).
Further, the emotional reaction of what one sees through the viewfinder could also easily cause a startled reaction. Indeed, Zapruder testified how he reacted to the sight of the impact of the bullet on Kennedy’s head (“I started...yelling, ‘They’ve killed him.’”) (7 H 571–572).
This would explain the fact that Alvarez, Hartmann, and Scott all detected blurs in the Zapruder film not only around the time of the head shot at Z313, but also around Z330–334, a second later, when he was fully absorbing the horrific sight of the president’s head having exploded in front of him.
In fact, though the overwhelming weight of the evidence shows that only three shots were fired in Dealey Plaza, the two experts from the HSCA photographic panel saw six blurs on the Zapruder film, the weakest of which was around Z290–292, a time when there is no evidence at all that a shot was fired (6 HSCA 30).
Because of all of the above variables and imponderables, and because there is no known way to distinguish a blur or jiggle caused by an involuntary reaction from one caused by, for instance, a voluntary pan/search movement, blur or jiggle analysis can never be conclusive on the number or timing of the shots fired in Dealey Plaza and should not be given great weight." -- Vincent Bugliosi; Pages 335-336 of "Reclaiming History: The Assassination Of President John F. Kennedy" (Endnotes)(c.2007)
ROBERT HARRIS SAID:
Why did DMN [Dallas Morning News] reporter Mary Woodward recall two closely bunched shots as the limo approached her, that she described as "ear shattering", David? How could some shots be ear shattering while others were not heard at all??
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Possibly due to Oswald's first (missed) shot at Z160 being something akin to a misfire (but not a complete misfire, since the bullet certainly was fired from the gun, as indicated by the number of shells [3] found on the floor in the Sniper's Nest).
That first shot could have had a different (and quieter) sound to it. In fact, many/most witnesses reported that the first sound they heard sounded more like a firecracker than it did a rifle shot.
ROBERT HARRIS SAID:
And why did so many other witnesses state that the first noise they heard sounded much different than the ones at the end?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
See my last comment.
In the final analysis, we're left with these things:
1.) THREE shells being found in the TSBD Sniper's Nest.
2.) Lee Oswald's rifle (with his prints on it) being found on the same floor as the shells.
3.) Bullet fragments CE567 and CE569 (fired conclusively from Oswald's rifle) being found in the limousine.
4.) Bullet CE399 being determined by both the Warren Commission and the HSCA to be the bullet that injured both Kennedy and Connally in Dealey Plaza (like it or not).
5.) And this previously-linked witness statistic:
When looking at the above list (plus many other items of physical and circumstantial evidence that I didn't mention), you don't have to be an A+ student in mathematics to figure out the most reasonable and most likely answer to the basic questions concerning the assassination of John F. Kennedy.
But, for some odd reason, the obvious answers to those questions keep eluding conspiracy theorists the world over.
~shrug~
David Von Pein
December 1, 2009
