RON ECKER SAID:
Broke down and spent five bucks [Egads!!] on the National Enquirer today, since the front page story was "There Were 3 JFK Shooters!"
News producer Mytchell Mora (he's worked for both FoxNews and CNN, so he's at least non-partisan) has "re-enhanced" the Z film, and found that the first shot (not caught on film) came from the TSBD, the second shot came from the Grassy Knoll (and he can see the windshield shatter with a spray of glass particles), and the fatal head shot was actually two shots from the same vicinity.
Here's what really jumped off the page: "If you listen closely to the audio on the Zapruder film you can hear four shots. The third shot is actually a double!"
Next time you're listening to the Z film, check it out!
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
And the audio on the Nix and Muchmore films is even better --- because it's in 7.1 Surround Sound!
RON ECKER SAID:
I forgot to mention, the article includes a photo of "the bullets that killed JFK and wounded Connally" being picked up off the ground. Circles are drawn around what's supposed to be the bullets where they lie. (It's actually the William Allen photo of a man in a suit probing the ground with his hand while Deputy Sheriff Walthers and Officer Foster stand by.)
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Yeah, Ron, that photo showing the man allegedly picking up a bullet has been discussed at forums for many years. In actuality, of course, there was no "bullet" recovered from the grass in Dealey Plaza. Here's my webpage covering that subject.
JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID:
Oh, well, if Jean Davison and John McAdams say it's all BS....then it must be?
The debate is not about a skull bone, leave it to DVP and Ayton to come up with that.
The debate is the FBI guy named Barrett right next to Walthers and what he found.
Mark Oakes did a really good inquiry into this many years ago. He did an actual field investigation: interviewing people, writing letters, filming some of those interviews. You know the kind of stuff that DVP, McAdams, and especially Davison simply do not do. The footnotes to Davison's book are an absolute joke, as is her book.
Read this thread and you will see that two witnesses later said that Barrett found a bullet and Walthers saw it. Barrett lied his head off about even being in the picture to Mark.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
And, of course, that alleged liar is the very same Robert M. Barrett that so many conspiracy theorists (including James DiEugenio of Los Angeles) love so dearly when it comes to the "Oswald Wallet" topic. Interesting, huh?
JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID:
Yeah, Dave, and it only took him 32 years to admit that.
And he would never have if Hosty had not written his book.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
And the very fact that it WAS over 30 years later that FBI Agent Bob Barrett first told his story about the wallet on Tenth Street should tell you something. It should indicate that Barrett's memory was probably not quite as sharp in 1996 as it was in 1963.
Plus, since we know (via Dale Myers' detailed article on the "Wallet" topic) that Barrett did talk with police officers, including Captain W.R. Westbrook, about the names "Oswald" and "Hidell" a little later at DPD Headquarters, that fact tells me that Barrett's 1996 chronology of exactly when he first heard the names "Oswald" and "Hidell" might just be a little muddled.
But, Jim, if you want, just keep believing that there was an "Oswald wallet" found at the Tippit murder site (either a real one or a "planted" one), even though such a belief makes absolutely no sense at all even for CTers, since none of the officers who were supposedly FRAMING Oswald ever said a word about finding such a wallet at the Tippit murder scene (even though those officers should have been salivating at the prospect of adding Oswald's wallet and I.D. cards to the pile of things they were framing him with).
JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID:
Your habit of always leaving out something important is sometimes astonishing.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
And your habit of failing to see the forest for the trees is even more "astonishing".
JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID:
And I bet that even after this you will leave up that link to your web site.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
You must be kidding. Of course I'm leaving it up. Because when it comes to the topic of "Was There A Bullet Found In The Grass In Dealey Plaza On 11/22/63?", my webpage devoted to that topic is most certainly one that has the facts concerning that topic. For there can be no doubt (after reading the newspaper citations and other source material relating to Deputy Sheriff Buddy Walthers that are included on my webpage here) that the answer to that "Was A Bullet Found?" question is No.
JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID:
DVP always plays both ends against the middle. First, well, see, Barrett said it was not him in the picture, but you trust him with the wallet.
Then I say, well, it took him 32 years to do it and he probably would never have done it on his own.
Now he says, well, if it took him 32 years, then it clouds his memory.
On that day, at that crime scene? After JFK had been shot?
Dale Myers has been trying to get Barrett to take back what he said for years on end. Since it demolishes the whole thesis of his book. Barrett has not done so. Myers is editorializing. And DVP accepts it.
Recall what Jez said: That was Oswald's wallet and don't let anyone bamboozle you. And then there is the film.
JAMES DiEUGENIO ALSO SAID:
My question to DVP was this: will you maintain that link and that info on your site now that I have shown you info that supersedes it? I would be hopeful you would not.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
If you mean this "Deep Politics Forum" post, well, that post "supersedes" nothing that I have on my own webpage. That Deep Politics forum post is a combination of hearsay, allegations, suppositions, and guesswork. Nothing PROVABLE in any shape or form.
Yes, Al Maddox said there was a "bullet". But Buddy Walthers flat-out denies it. And we know Walthers was there (he's certainly recognizable in the photos).
And that DPF post doesn't confirm it was even Barrett in the picture. Maybe it was, but maybe it wasn't. But even if it is Barrett---who cares? I certainly don't. Either way, there's NO BULLET for anybody to show to us. It's another in the long line of Conspiracy Myths that has surfaced since the assassination. Just like "The Wallet" on Tenth Street. Yes, it's certainly a WALLET being examined by police officers at the Tippit murder site. But it could have literally been anybody's wallet. Maybe it was a wallet owned by one of the witnesses at the scene. Maybe it was another police officer's billfold (who, for some reason, pulled out his own wallet). Maybe it was J.D. Tippit's wallet (which is what I believe). Who knows? Nobody does. It's a mystery that will likely never be fully solved.
JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID:
Tippit's wallet? Another policeman's?
Why not add Santa Claus? After all, it was a month from Xmas.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Yeah, why not? As I said, it could have been almost ANYBODY'S wallet. I don't know. And you don't know. Nobody knows for sure whose wallet it was.
Allow me to quote every conspiracy theorist's favorite author and lawyer, the late Vincent T. Bugliosi of Los Angeles....
"One thing we can be reasonably certain about: the wallet was not Oswald’s. [Dale K.] Myers closely compared a close-up photo of Oswald’s arrest wallet with the wallet found at the murder scene and found definite physical differences, causing him to conclude that “the Oswald arrest wallet is not the same billfold seen in the WFAA newsfilm” (Myers, 'With Malice', pp.298–299). Furthermore, a Dallas police officer had just been slain. It is inconceivable that members of the Dallas Police Department like Captains Westbrook and Doughty and Sergeant Hill would suppress and keep secret the fact that Tippit’s killer had left his calling card at the murder scene. That simply would not, could not, have happened. If Oswald’s wallet had been found at the murder scene, it is inconceivable that nowhere in the testimony or the reports of Westbrook, Hill, Doughty, Poe, and so on, would they bother to mention this extremely important fact. .... If I had to wager, I’d conclude it was Tippit’s wallet, and the reason Reiland stated, on WFAA film [HERE], that it was Tippit’s wallet is that the police had informed him at the scene that it was. Quite apart from Barrett, it makes no sense to me that the Dallas police and detectives, several of whom were Tippit’s friends, would keep from the world that his killer’s wallet was found near his body." -- Vincent Bugliosi; Pages 454 and 456 of "Reclaiming History" (Endnotes)
JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID:
Davey, as we have shown many times on the Tippit thread, Vince was simply wrong on this.
Got that: He was wrong.
Tippit's wallet was recovered from the hospital and it was taken to the DPD along with his other effects. That is in my essay. If you do not want to note it or look at it, fine. It's part of your denial syndrome. [Heavy Irony Alert!!]
As we have shown, the Oswald wallet at the Tippit scene was selectively used, probably by Westbrook, to put together other elements like the Hidell alias. It would have been stupid of them to admit that at the time. Because it would have led to the obvious question: Who carries three wallets? And why?
I mean, is that not why it's so radioactive today?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Here's a replay of part of a discussion from August 2010 concerning the topic of J.D. Tippit's wallet:
DVP SAID:
Jim [DiEugenio], in what document can I find the info about Tippit's wallet being taken off of his corpse at Methodist Hospital?
[Later....]
Never mind, Jim. I found it myself, via the files of the Dallas Municipal Archives (Box 9; Folder 2; Item 3), linked HERE.
And (just as I suspected) the document showing Tippit's personal property most definitely does NOT prove that Tippit's wallet was taken off of his body at Methodist Hospital (or at Parkland, where he was taken for his autopsy).
How can I know?
Because Tippit's service revolver is ALSO listed on this inventory of Tippit's personal property ("1 SW Rev Ser # 138278"). And we know that Tippit's revolver was LEFT AT THE MURDER SCENE after Tippit was shot, being picked up by witness Ted Callaway.
Therefore, the "Black Billfold" listed in that document didn't necessarily have to be taken off of Tippit's body at Methodist or Parkland.
JIM DiEUGENIO SAID:
Please show me the testimony, evidence or affidavit about the name plate, pens etc being stripped off Tippit at the scene. Yeah sure. Happens all the time, right?
DVP SAID:
When did I ever suggest such a foolish and stupid thing, Jim?
Answer: Never.
But you have no proof that a DPD officer didn't take Tippit's wallet from 10th Street to either Methodist or Parkland between the time Tippit was shot and the time Captain Doughty signed-off on the document which catalogues all of Tippit's personal belongings at 3:25 PM.
Allow me to quote Jim DiEugenio's favorite author of all-time, Vincent T. Bugliosi:
"But whose wallet was it? Dallas WFAA-TV cameraman Ron Reiland, narrating the silent footage for his viewers, said it was Tippit’s wallet. Apart from [Dale] Myers saying that Reiland’s reportage over the assassination weekend contained numerous factual errors, the main reason why Myers rejects the possibility that the wallet was Tippit’s is that “1 Black Billfold” was listed among Tippit’s personal effects, and Myers says, “The only item known to have been brought to the hospital [Methodist, and later Parkland] and added to Tippit’s personal effects was Tippit’s revolver, which by all accounts was left behind at the murder scene” (Myers, 'With Malice', pp.299–300).
But we know that several officers went to Methodist Hospital, where Tippit’s body was brought into the emergency ward, and they could have brought Tippit’s wallet from the murder scene to either there or Parkland. There certainly was plenty of time to do so before Tippit’s personal property was inventoried, at 3:25 p.m. (Document titled “Identification Bureau Crime Scene Search Section, Police Department, Dallas, Texas,” box 9, folder 2, item 3, DMA; Myers, 'With Malice', p.301).
Certainly, the mere absence of any statement or documentary evidence that an item of personal property (the wallet) was added to Tippit’s personal effects would not be strong evidence that such an event never took place.
But if, indeed, it was Tippit’s wallet, why didn’t civilian witnesses like Jack Tatum, Ted Callaway, and the two ambulance attendants, Eddie Kinsley and J. C. Butler, see the wallet lying next to Tippit’s body? Nor did Joe Poe and Leonard Jez, two of the first officers to arrive at the scene. (Myers, 'With Malice', p.300)
One thing we can be reasonably certain about: the wallet was not Oswald’s."
-- Vincent Bugliosi; Page 454 of "Reclaiming History" (Endnotes)
[More HERE.]
[End 2010 Quotes.]
So, Jim, the idea that the wallet seen in the WFAA-TV footage was J.D. Tippit's wallet is still in the mix.
BACK TO THE "BULLET IN THE GRASS" AGAIN....
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
So, Jim, you obviously must think Buddy Walthers is a liar too (in addition to Barrett), correct?
This is a 1967 newspaper article, btw.....
JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID:
Oh come on Davey.
Everyone except you knows that people like Walthers, Craig and Weitzmann [sic] caught all kinds of Hades in 1963 and 1964 because what they said departed from the official story. You refuse to acknowledge that, even though it's well illustrated by Barry Ernest in his book with what they did to Craig and what they did to Victoria Adams.
You cannot acknowledge it because it shows there was a cover up after the fact. The evidence of that is abundant to anyone except you and your former mentor Vince Bugliosi. If you admit there was a cover up, then you essentially admit there was something wrong with the official story.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Jim, you've got so many people "covering up" stuff related to the JFK and Tippit murders, I can't possibly keep them all straight in my mind. From Earl Warren...to Arlen Specter...to Wesley Liebeler...to Dr. Humes...to Buell Frazier...to Ruth Paine...to Allen Dulles...to Buddy Walthers...to Bob Barrett...to Gerald Ford...to Marrion Baker...to Linnie Mae Randle...to Harold Norman...to Roy Truly...to David Belin...to Howard Brennan...to Gerald Hill...to Henry Wade...to Michael Paine...to J.W. Fritz...to John J. McCloy...to Kenneth Croy...and dozens more. (And those are names that just popped into my head as I was writing this post. James DiEugenio's complete roster of "Cover-Up Operatives" would probably fill up a medium-sized phone book.)
When you are forced to believe that THAT many individual persons were involved in some kind of "cover-up", then I think it might just be time for the conspiracy theorist to re-think his own position. Because, frankly, it's just flat-out ridiculous. (IMHO.)
JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID:
Do you really think the powers that be in Dallas were going to let Walthers back up Garrison in public at that time? What he said to others in private was different as you can see in that thread. And also through the Oakes film.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Well, Jim, since (as you know) I think Jim Garrison was full of shit and didn't have any idea what he was talking about when it comes to the "JFK Conspiracy" he was peddling, and since I'm convinced that no bullet was ever recovered from the infield of Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63, then obviously I do not consider it a lie when Buddy Walthers, in December of 1967, said "I never saw any bullet".
But if you want to continue to pretend that a bullet was found on the south side of Elm Street at approximately 12:40 PM (CST) on November 22, 1963, then be my guest. After all, even the many Anybody But Oswald conspiracy fantasists of the world have a right to speak their minds and believe anything they want to believe.
JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID:
Davey, you saying that the wallet could still be Tippit's is like you saying that "Well, CE 399 is still in the mix." And if one is willing to say the latter in the face of Bardwell Odum being exposed by Aguilar, Thompson's talk with Wright, Hunt's work on Frazier and his getting the stretcher bullet before Todd gave it to him, and his exposure of Hoover's lies about Todd's initials being on it, then how can anyone trust you and your handling of evidence and your interpretation of such?
As I have said so many times, like Zeb Judah, you do not know when you are KO'd.
Which is fine. That is what makes you Davey.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
~~Yawn~~ and ~~Stretch~~
Same old bluster from Mr. DiEugenio. He thinks CE399 is a fake, etc. (Gosh, what a surprise.)
It doesn't matter a whit, of course, to Mr. DiEugenio that every official committee/commission that has examined the case has stated that that precise bullet --- Commission Exhibit Number Three-Niner-Niner --- is the exact bullet that wounded both JFK & Connally.
Per Jimmy, every single investigator, lawyer, Senator, Congressman, and Chief Justice of the United States who came to the conclusion that CE399 hit President Kennedy and Governor Connally must have ALL been either totally nuts, complete dimwits, or liars.
And Jim actually thinks Bardwell Odum's 38-year-old memory trumps the 1964 FBI report we find in Commission Exhibit No. 2011.
Which is fine. That is what makes you Jimmy.
DAVID VON PEIN ALSO SAID:
Just a quick side note regarding the allegation of "CIA involvement" in President Kennedy's death:
David Von Pein
May 12-13, 2018
