(PART 1179)


This is to let [Education Forum] members know that the Lancer Archive will be restored this August [2016].

I understand it will not be a restoration of the previous system. It will be a bespoke rebuild.

It has been confirmed by the developers that they expect to restore all the data saved prior to the hack.

EF Members will need to apply to be members of Lancer. Present membership of the EF will not give members access to the site. Nor will it be possible to have read access without membership. Lancer membership will be needed to have both read and write access.


Is there any way to revise that horrible decision, James?

IMO, it's incredibly silly to go to the trouble of restoring all those Lancer posts and then cut off everyone except "members" from reading the content. Why would anyone choose to incorporate such a stiff restriction? I really don't understand that. ~shrug~



I do not see a problem. If the archive is something you are interested in, then request to be a member. Unless there is good reason not to admit a member into the JFKLancer, it is simply a matter of routine.

In your time, you must have applied to join numerous sites. JFK Lancer is not the property of the EF. The EF has been entrusted with the upkeep [of] it. We promised Debra [Conway]--when possible--we would have the site professionally restored.


It is also going to cost quite a bit of money to restore in the way we want it restored and it does not seem unreasonable to create a separate membership for the site.

Bottom line, it is up to each member to decide whether they also wish to be a member of JFKLancer as well. Nobody is being forced to join.


But why REQUIRE someone to JOIN a forum just to READ its contents? That was my point. I hate that restriction. And I think some other people do too.

Some people prefer to lurk (i.e., just read), but prefer not to "join up". Virtually all forums that I have been a part of have allowed everyone on the Internet to at least SEE the posts being written without being forced to join the forum as an official member.

Duncan MacRae's forum permits everyone to read the site (although, for some reason, there is a restriction on viewing links and photos unless you're a registered member). The Usenet newsgroups are completely open to all readers. As is Greg Parker's forum. And DPF [Deep Politics Forum]. And Wim Dankbaar's forum. And, of course, this Education Forum does not restrict the reading of threads to just members. So why would JFK Lancer restrict readership? They never did before their shutdown a few years ago. Anybody could read the posts in past years.

I don't understand the logic of such a restriction at all. Without the restriction, the site would undoubtedly get far more hits too. (How could it not?) And isn't that one of the things that a website owner strives for--a bigger audience, in order to get its message out there to the public?


For once, I completely agree with DVP. Limiting the reading of posts to members only will certainly shrink the audience. I guess I understand if the intent is to create a research database, but you indicated that there will also be a new forum.

Was this Debra's decision? If not, whose idea was it?

Lancer had a nice period there, with lots of solid contributions. I have no problem registering, but if the goal is to share knowledge and information, then the posts should be available to everyone.



The idea and decision was mine. I have no idea who hacked and destroyed the [JFK Lancer] site, but it is going to cost a very large sum of money to restore.

Through registration, admin will know who is on the site at any time. It is just an extra level of security to ensure the site is better protected.


I'm with James on this. While requiring registration will not PREVENT another hacking, it would serve as a bit of a deterrent.

So for that reason, I'm in favor of requiring registration.


Using this logic, shouldn't you prevent non-members from reading the Education Forum's posts as well, else you'll risk being hacked here too?


Now, Greg, why did you want to go and plant that seed into Jim Gordon's head? You probably just started him on the road to mandatory registration here too. Which would mean that all of the Education Forum posts that I have ever linked to at my own site will become worthless and unavailable to 95% of the people looking at my webpages, because they are not (of course) members of The Education Forum. ~sigh~

You should have kept quiet, Greg.


The potential that JFK Lancer provides us--in its restored form--will allow us in the future to provide many more new features.

One feature of the new site is to make various adaptions of the original Lancer header. .... When in the new Lancer Forum, we are thinking of using the following header. Other site functions will have their own header....


Nice looking header. Clean. Simple. Easy to read. I always notice things like that on websites, because I've been in the habit of creating my own custom headers and logos for all of my own sites/blogs. And I always try to keep them as simple as possible.

Here's the original Lancer Forum logo/header that was on the Lancer site for years (I downloaded a copy to my computer before the site disappeared a few years ago). But I like the one James posted above better....




You recall how Lancer looked when a visitor entered the Forum. You may remember the individual thread topics would have sub threads connected to them (kinda like what an online genealogy ancestry tree looks like)? These sub threads would extend the entire length of the topic. Sometimes mini-sub threads would be visible connected to a portion of the main thread 'tree'. This was individual responses to specific contributors as opposed to responding to the last post published. There could be many of these.


FWIW / FYI....

Here's an example of the "tree" formatting Brad just spoke of (screen capture saved via the Wayback Machine at Archive.org on April 29, 2005):


But the "tree" method wasn't the only way to view Lancer forum threads. You could also opt to switch to the "Linear Mode" for viewing the forum's threads (which is the method I always used, because I found it much easier and less confusing). I don't think any linear views of any threads have been archived by the Wayback Machine, however.



Are you arguing for this structure to be implemented onto the restored Lancer?

I can see advantages of such a structure. Not sure whether there is sufficient info left to restore it. However, if you feel that structure would benefit members, I am happy to ask if it can be implemented.


You mean the "Tree" structure, James?

If you mean the tree mode, then I'd say no. I hated that tree mode. As I said in my last post, I always opted for the "Linear" mode when viewing Lancer forum threads. That "tree" method is something I never used. It's awful, IMO. So I wouldn't care if that type of formatting was restored or not. I'll certainly never use it—unless it's the only way to view the threads.


Thanks, David.

I clearly misread your post.


Way to go, David!!! Your visual knocked the ball out of the park with [the] bases loaded! Thank you, Sir. The visual shows exactly what I was trying to convey to Larry Hancock in non-computer speak words. You saved the day for me, David.

Believe it or not, David, in all my many visits to the Lancer Forum (as a silent lurker), I was unaware of the linear view. I never used it because I didn't know that option was even there.

I am quickly becoming a big fan of your online computer skills, David. From this moment on, I promise to either try and rescue you if Mrs. Rodgers sends you out into her hallway (or at least bring my desk out there & suffer with you). (LOL)

I kinda halfway expect when James & his folks finish their Lancer restoration, folks globally will start keeping the thread topics in some format similar to screen grabs (or even primitive means like I used with Word documents).

You may have unknowingly launched a new career field, David. For lack of a better name, I'll call it 'website sitting' for now (lol).

Many thanks, distinguished & esteemed Sir.


Thanks, Brad.

Another "FYI"....

Here are 16,455 more screen captures from the old Lancer forum (also via the Wayback Machine). A bunch of these links are worthless, however, taking you to pages that aren't there. But if you type the words "show_topic" (with the underscore between the words) into the box marked "Filter results", you'll get results from forum threads that can be displayed. Looking through all this stuff could keep a person busy for years. :)


Does that means James' wife is not going to see him anymore because she can't get him away from those screen captures & old forum threads, David? (lol)


Gosh, I hope James isn't like me as far as time spent in front of this square box every day. I'm sitting in front of it nearly every waking moment. (These tyrants at Langley are murder.) ~wink~

But, now that I think about it, that large "Wayback" archive of Lancer threads could be useful in restoring threads and posts that were thought to be previously lost. And I'm thinking that the "Filter" on that page I posted above could be used to put in specific thread (topic) numbers for possible retrieval of each post and page within specific threads.

I have no idea how many total topics were created at the old Lancer forum, but I would imagine that a whole lot of those threads are among the 16,455 links in that Wayback cached archive.


Wow! When you knock a ball out of the park, it must sail for miles....


Well, I did play Little League baseball in my youth. But I never did hit a home run. Not a single one. :( But I was a pretty good first baseman. My teammates called me "Scoop". I think I was probably the shortest first baseman in the history of the game, but I had good hands. [Click on my "simulated" Topps baseball card below to see my "good hands" in action on the baseball diamond in 1973.] :)

[End baseball diversion.]


Thank You, David. Don't be surprised if folks reading your tech wisdom start freezing in place & gawking at you in public as if you were Moses walking past them with the tablets from the mountain still smoking (lol).


Thanks for the comparison to ol' Charlton (er, Moses), but my electronic wizardry is nothing special. When it comes to being tech savvy, I can't do half the things my brother can do on a computer. He built his own TV website from the ground up. Sadly, that site is now gone, but part of it is still there via the good ol' Wayback.

I'm just thankful for blog sites like Blogger and Word Press, which allow anyone with a mouse to create as many webpages as they want for free---without needing to know how to build the structure of a webpage from scratch. And if I weren't so slow (and dumb) when it comes to getting into "new" things, I would have created all of my JFK blogs years earlier. Blogger is a Godsend.

Wayback Footnote....

If anybody wants a glimpse of the way The Education Forum appeared in its early days in June of 2004, here's a look.



I was wrong when I said this earlier:

"I don't think any linear views of any threads have been archived by the Wayback Machine, however."

It would appear that many Lancer pages in "Linear" mode are available
through Wayback. I merely put the word "linear" into the filter box—and Voila! Here's one example.


Astounding, breathtaking.....

You were right, David. Linear view is the way to go. I didn't even know that view was there at the original Lancer (Brad hides his head in shame) or I would have used it. I'm afraid to look up 'computer dummy' in Webster's for fear my photo is posted under the definition as an example (crying again).

According to your illustration, what I looked at back in the day was 'threaded' view. I can't help but wonder if I had been in Linear view when Lancer was attacked, if I would have seen all the thread deletions that were occurring regularly at the time that I was looking at the topic discussions in Threaded view? Divine intervention? Only the Shadow knows (lol).

Looking at those names in the Lancer linear view discussion example you posted brings back a lot of memories for me, David. Debra Conway interviews with witnesses has all but been forgotten today. 'No Case To Answer', 'Someone Would Have Talked' & Bill Miller dominated much of the discussions I remember reading.

You are probably right, David. What I'm in the process of screening through to send to James [Gordon] & his team of wizards doesn't come close to looking as nice as your posted examples. Your examples catch things I didn't copy & paste, providing James' restoration wizards much more usable data for analysis than what I captured in my Word documents.

May I make a request? When you have time, can you find any examples just like you posted in linear or tree (threaded) view from around early April, 2010? The JFK Lancer blog apparently was active then. The blog entries cease after April 2010. The mass deletions & snarky comments I saw should be close to that time frame of early April, 2010. I'm waiting for that Dealey character (or his imposter) to pop up. His stuff (or his imposter) is going to raise a lot of eyebrows & red flags if just a portion of his posts that I saw are available online at the places you indicated or when James' teams of wizards find them in their Lancer restoration endeavor. Similar to the rifle left behind in the TSBD, I believe the 'cyber assassin' that murdered the original Lancer Forum also left behind evidence in the deletions & snarky comments that person placed on Lancer's (and Larry Hancock's) server.

From my Federal service days & a couple of classes on a couple server operating systems, I was taught that a server can actually 'murder itself' by improperly being shut down (such as a loss of power). The operating simply goes crazy & is capable of many weird things. James & his wizards know that kind of stuff far better than a couple of server classes could ever have taught me. In this case, the fingerprints that the server is not the culprit are the messages left behind following the deletions, such as 'you've been warned about posting your garbage in this forum'. Those messages, I believe, were made by the cyber assassin that deserves to be in prison for murdering JFK Lancer.

Anybody that accuses you of being part of the Langley boys, just refer them to me, David. Anyone with half a brain knows those fellows spend most of their day after lunker bass in the beautiful lakes of Virginia & West Virginia. I've heard lots of them suffer from massive chigger bite attacks when skipping out from their workload (lol). You simply don't have time to be out fishing with those Langley boys with all you manage to do online, David. Folks that think that way need to 'get real' before they also get listed under 'Internet dummy' in Webster's next to my name (smile). For folks that think that way of me, I ask them: show me the blue ocean crabs, not lunker bass. A true Cajun won't waste their day on 1 or 2 big fish when they might catch 4 or 5 dozen crabs that will feed a LOT of little Cajuns (lol). No fishing with the Langley boys for Brad either.

Your illustrations have brought fresh air into this entire conversation, David. EF members & visitors can now see visually what the Lancer Restoration is all about. They can now 'see' the original Lancer Forum as it was & what James Gordon tells us his wizards will make much better & more secure.

My opinion of you, David? Use this portion of the thread & a couple posts above as examples & notice how the conversation shifted from my vague, confusing descriptions of what Lancer used to look like to the illustrations of the real deal David provided everyone. Those that fight you verbally are like those that try to exclude you from conversations or avoid your JFK online media visuals & other cool stuff (like your old movie & TV collections). Those folks only cheat themselves. This conversation would have been cheated had you not joined in, David. Because folks were not cheated, they learned something. They received education they were not cheated out of.

The fundamental difference between you & I, David, is simply that I suffered from 'TMR' (too much Rodgers) & you weren't stuck in her 5th grade class; therefore, you suffer from TLR (too little Rodgers) lol. Other than that, I admire the heck out of you & your many, many gifted smarts, David. I'm not strong enough to face what you face with the strength you have without buckling & collapsing.

John Lennon used to ask his fans to 'Give Peace A Chance'. I never had any problems at all with John. You ask people to 'give the evidence a chance'. As unpopular as it may make me in some circles, I don't have a problem with that request, or you, Mr. Von Pein.

You are da man! Go, David, Go!

PS: From my personal email comments, I know a lot of diverse people are following this thread closely. I obviously can't tell folks what to think, but since I can post at EF & lurkers can't, may I offer a bit of advice to those jumping way ahead of James Gordon & David Von Pein & me in an attempt to locate 'cyber assassins' that from what little I was taught about servers, a server can be capable of executing itself simply by being improperly turned off. This causes the operating system to go berserk & create havoc even the best of server analysts would have trouble figuring out what happened. This is especially true when the server boots back up. The multitude of things the server was doing when it crashed or was improperly shut down, the calculations, the commands & a whole lot more (that are accomplished in less time than the blink of an eye) can often create a lot of weird things that are visible either immediately, or as time progresses.

With that in mind, please take my prior comments with a grain of salt & allow James Gordon & his team of wizards to complete their restoration & analysis. In my mind, chasing shadows takes a back seat to the new library James & his crew are building out of the old Lancer website. What James & his team create is more important than who (if anyone) killed JFK Lancer. It is quite possible JFK Lancer's server killed itself.

In the meantime, the illustrations that David Von Pein posted of the original Lancer & the places one can obtain more are priceless. They will take a person back in time & allow them to visit a portion of JFK Lancer just as it looked when those thread pages were saved. I'd suggest focusing there & not bother James, his team & others with speculation about 'cyber assassins'; instead I suggest doing what I intend to do as time permits: research how one should react to a cyber attack, who to go to for help & what one can do to assist the technicians & analysts attempting to pick everything back up & get the server on its feet again.



Jerry Dealey was the Lancer Forum moderator. He is also a member of this forum:


I've met him a couple of times, and cannot imagine him acting up as a mod. He's got a good sense of humour, but I don't think he'd act poorly in a more serious role. I'd have to see what he was responding to, as well as his responses. He has presented at the Conference a few times.

(BTW, I always viewed Lancer in linear mode as well, as I couldn't stand the trees.)


Before I ever read Kathy Becket's last post, I had it in mind to tell Brad that Jerry Dealey was part of the JFK Lancer moderation team back in the days when Lancer was still operating. But Kathy beat me to it.

I've had several Internet and e-mail conversations with Jerry Dealey since 2004, and I always found him to be very pleasant and fair and easy to get along with. At that time, several years ago, I remember that Jerry was known for being a JFK assassination "fence sitter". As I recall, he didn't take a firm position FOR or AGAINST a conspiracy existing in the assassination. He was a "middle of the road" man. (Jerry is also a relative of the famous Dealey family of Dallas.)

Here's an article that Jerry wrote in 2005:

http://www.dealey.org/"I'm Bothered"

And here are some of Jerry's comments about "forums" (from June of 2013):

--- Quote On: ---


Don't usually come out here, although I do on occasion.

Just a couple of comments from a Moderator on another Forum.

John [Simkin] owns the Forum. He is entitled to grant or deny access for anyone he wants. If you do not like that, you are always welcome to create your own Forums, and do whatever rules you want. (I can even show you sites that will host them for free.)

A Forum can be pre-approved postings, or open. Open Forums run the risk of inappropriate posting being made before the Moderator can see them, or object to them. Therefore some inappropriate material may appear, although the offender may be warned or banned after the fact.

A Blog typically only has postings that have been approved and put into place by the owner. This often means that you will only see information the owner agrees with, and not diverse opinions.

Social Media (such as Twitter or Facebook) has slowed many of the Forums. As it is open to almost anything, at least ONCE.

John has full rights to only invite and tolerate people who follow his rules. He owns the Forum, and has stated what the rules are. I think he fairly only bans people who violate the rules; however, since it is HIS forum, he can do whatever he wants.

As always, if you don't like the rules of someone else's Forum, you can start your own, and try to get people to show up.

OK. Back to Lancer.


Jerry Dealey"

--- End Quote ---

@Brad Milch:

Thanks for your comments.

I've done a little more searching of the Lancer links via the good ol' Wayback Machine, but I didn't come across anything from April 2010. But if you persevere and trudge through the 16,000+ pages, you'll probably find at least something. Good luck.



The Lancer Forum was hacked, and by someone calling him/herself Dealey. Was not me, regardless. Those final messages with cussing and other abusive posts were clearly not me, as anyone who dealt with me for several years will tell you. (Hopefully, they will.)

To answer the question though, I think the Forum was hacked in Early 2013, with the 50th anniversary coming up. It was so badly hacked (2nd time) that Deb simply took it down and left it. It had been slowing towards the end anyway, as social media gave people the ability to say anything they wanted, and let the information just slowly scroll away. That allowed for a lot of "hiding behind the keyboard", since it is possible to be almost anyone you want to claim to be on Facebook.

As a Moderator, I seldom actually deleted anyone's post (although I might EDIT out some offensive words or slams, but always with an "EDIT" notation. Even when I would occasionally BAN someone, I would leave their posts up so that EVERYONE could see why they were banned, and the offending reasons. I feel that every person should stand behind what they say, and felt their conduct (good and bad) should be left out there for everyone to read! Their reputation is based on what they say, and how they conduct themselves.

I also was certain to leave all of MY posts and actions on the system, so that others would know how I was treating the Members! It was not until I read THIS subject that I even knew the Hacker was using "Dealey". It points to a number of people that I did have to BAN, and one that would even call my office and harass me vocally (public figure) every week or so, but I am going to try to keep that information to myself and let those bad times be forgot.....

Anything I can do to help the restoration (which appears to be over a year old now), just let me know.

Respectfully, (As always)

Jerry Dealey


For what its worth, I actually liked the tree structure at Lancer Forum.

That way you could pick and choose which comments you wanted to read based upon the subject matter and the identity of the poster.

I thought it was unique and helpful.


I think it's a nice feature to offer BOTH kinds of viewing options at a forum (the "linear" and the "threaded" or "tree" type). But if a "tree" option is offered, then the straight linear option needs to be there too, IMO. Because with the linear choice, you can always simply go straight to the bottom of the last "page" and find the newest posts since your last forum visit. The newest stuff (not counting posts that have been edited, of course) will always be at the bottom, and not scattered all over the place, as they are via the "tree/threaded" mode.

Another really nice feature for forum owners is the feature that Amazon.com uses on all of its forum and "customer discussions" --- and that is to have an anchor link that will take each individual viewer directly to the most recent post(s) within that forum since that viewer last visited the forum. I utilize that "Since Last Visit" feature every day (example photo below; and if you can try to ignore the idiotic conspiracy ramblings of "Heisenberg" [aka Willy Whitten] within this example provided, it might be good for your health).

It seems to me (IIRC) that the old Lancer forum did have a similar "Since Your Last Visit" feature implemented on its forum.


Hi all,

I had a conversation with the developers of the Lancer archive today [December 1, 2016]. I was curious why it was taking so long. The problem is that those who hacked it "did a real job" as the developer explained to me. Most of the links are unable to be recreated because when re-established they link to porn sites or shoe stores. At present very little is able to be restored.

I have contacted Debra [Conway] to see if - by any chance - she has other back ups that could be used to restore the archive. If anyone knows where other back-ups reside - even partial ones - indeed even very early ones they would be of great help to the developers.

To be honest, although the site will be recreated, it is possible that there might be little left of what was once JFK Lancer. The developer commented to me that "unfortunately the files that were provided to us have as much, if not more, malicious code than original material." That said, I still live in hope that we can be successful - but I have to accept the reality that a full restoration may not be possible.


There are many old Lancer Forum links stored at Archive.org's Wayback Machine. A lot of these links are pretty much worthless and useless, but some of them appear to point to full Lancer Forum threads of the past:



Hi All,

I am sorry to announce, but today [December 2, 2016] I cancelled the Lancer Archive project. It was clear from the conversations I have been having that the extent of the hack was so severe that there was a possibility that no data would be recovered or precious little data.

It got to the point that I felt it would be better to cut my losses rather than go on.

Sorry. I really had hoped this archive could have been restored.


After almost a two-year wait, this is disheartening to hear.



I agree and I am very disappointed too. I am kicking myself. I was informed two years ago all data could be recovered. I never checked with the developer whether that was actually the case. That is my fault.

I will need to think about it - but I may allow interested parties access to the raw archive. Though going by what has been described as to its quality, I am not sure just what good that will do.

I had high hopes for this archive, however that is now water under the bridge.


Hi All,

I have just re-sanctioned work on the Lancer Archive. I know I keep changing my mind. I had not heard from Debra Conway and I assumed - wrongly as it turns out - that she had no other backups. Well I was wrong, she does have other backups. I do not know whether they are clean backups, corrupted or partial clean/corrupted. I am hoping for the former.

Now that there is a real possibility that recovery might be accomplished, I have agreed to allow it to go ahead.

Sorry for the confusion. I really did think this morning that was an end of the matter.



Thank you for your continued perseverance and dedication to the Lancer restoration project. I hope it is a successful endeavor.

David Von Pein
April 24—September 27, 2016
September 10, 2016
December 1-2, 2016
February 19, 2017 [Edit]