DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
For many years now, a claim made by JFK assassination conspiracy theorists has been that the initials of FBI agent Elmer Lee Todd were not present on the bullet (Warren Commission Exhibit No. 399) that was found on a Parkland Hospital stretcher shortly after President Kennedy was shot on November 22, 1963.
But it has now been proven that Elmer Todd's initials are on Bullet CE399. This proof arrived in 2022 and was supplied by assassination researcher Steve Roe, whose article concerning this matter, entitled "The Unfounded Attack on CE 399’s Chain of Custody", was published online at the Washington Decoded website on June 11, 2022. The article can be found HERE and HERE.
That article by Steve Roe contains new high-definition photographs of CE399, including the picture below, which clearly shows that the initials "ET" (Elmer Todd) have been scratched into the surface of the bullet near the nose, which is precisely where Elmer Todd himself said in Commission Document No. 7 he had etched his initials:
So, with Mr. Roe's definitive discovery of Elmer Lee Todd's initials on that crucial and long-maligned piece of assassination-related evidence known as Commission Exhibit 399, it should forever put to rest yet another long-standing (and inaccurate) argument that has been made by conspiracy theorists—the argument that Todd's initials are nowhere to be found on CE399.
VINCE PALAMARA SAID [HERE AND HERE]:
I must admit that I see the "ET" right away and am stunned others who saw the bullet in person missed it...if it was truly there for many decades.
[...]
That "E" and "T" look mighty big (and awkward) to have been missed by ANYONE all these years. A clumsy, awkward late addition?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I think Vince needs to take into consideration the fact that the photograph that contains the "ET" marking on CE399 is a picture of the bullet that has been zoomed-in and enlarged considerably in order to highlight the "ET" area being focused on.
In order to put the actual size of the bullet into better perspective, here's a montage photo I created that shows on the left side a human hand holding Commission Exhibit 399 and on the right is the new hi-def photo of the nose end of the bullet with Elmer Todd's initials:
I think it's clear when looking at the "bullet in the hand" photo on the left that those "ET" initials occupy a very very small amount of space at the nose end of that bullet.
The full length of a Mannlicher-Carcano bullet like CE399 is only about 1.2 inches (per the Warren Commission testimony of FBI firearms examiner Robert A. Frazier). So the actual size of Elmer Todd's "ET" mark on the bullet must surely be measured in mere millimeters.
So perspective plays a huge role in explaining why Todd's markings look so large to Vincent Palamara.
DAVID VON PEIN LATER SAID:
During the last several years, conspiracy believer James DiEugenio has many times made a big deal out of Elmer Todd's initials in my discussions with him. When a search is performed at my JFK Archives website for "Elmer Todd" and "James DiEugenio" and "CE399", several separate discussions pop up:
http://JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/Search Terms= Elmer Todd + James DiEugenio + CE399
Sample argument from October 3, 2012:
ROBERT HARRIS -- "Those initials [of FBI agent Elmer Todd] are not on CE399."
DAVID VON PEIN -- "Yes, they are. You just can't see them in the NARA photos."
JAMES DiEUGENIO -- "This has now gone beyond absurdity. Davey Boy, everyone here is still waiting for you to put your money where your mouth is. Something you never ever do. In other words...go to Travelocity, book a flight and a hotel room, and go ahead and do what you have been saying you would do for ages: Prove John Hunt is a liar."
DAVID VON PEIN -- "Yeah, right, Jimbo. Like the NARA is going to allow me to just waltz right in and examine CE399. Get real. Fact is: John Hunt DID NOT examine the bullet itself. He examined the same photos that have been posted in this very thread. And those photos (as good as they might be) are not definitive proof that Todd did not mark CE399. Plus: There are TWO separate (and corroborating) official FBI documents that tell us that Elmer Todd DID mark the bullet (CD7 and CE2011). And CD7 confirms that Todd marked the bullet on the day of the assassination itself. Spit on those records if you want to; call them fake if you want to (and you do want to, naturally). But I'm not willing to do so. Period."
Now back to 2022:
Mr. DiEugenio now has no choice but to drop the "Todd's Initials Aren't On The Bullet" argument. Or maybe he'll say the initials were faked and added by somebody other than Todd. Ya think?
MARTIN WEIDMANN SAID:
Why are you posting about your interactions with Jim DiEugenio when he's not a member here?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Why not?
Plus:
Any time a chance exists to make a longtime conspiracy clown look even more like a clown---why should such an opportunity go to waste? 😁
MARTIN WEIDMANN SAID:
Yeah, I thought it was something sick like that. Posting stuff about somebody who isn't a member and thus won't reply.
Weak, pathethic, underhand[ed] and exactly what I would expect from a LN weasel.
You've told us just about everything we need to know about you and it isn't pretty.
It's one thing to simply disagree about the facts of this case. That would be civil. This, on the other hand, isn't. Anything but!
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
^^^^ From the desk of Saint Martin. ^^^^
MARTIN WEIDMANN SAID:
Said the clown who is posting this crap.
Pretty obvious who is the Saint and who is the low life.
Which makes me wonder why this is so important to you. All this went down nearly sixty years ago and nowadays only a small minority is even interested. The rest are so ignorant that all they know (if they know anything at all) that Kennedy was killed by some guy shooting from a building. So, what in the world motivates you to conduct a bogus propaganda campaign against a guy who died nearly sixty years ago and who may or may not have killed Kennedy?
Get a life, will ya.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
The silly part about my conducting "a bogus propaganda campaign" is, of course, complete and utter nonsense, but as for my motivation....
MARTIN WEIDMANN SAID:
The world can do without your biased opinions.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
But we certainly could never do without yours, right?
MARTIN WEIDMANN SAID:
You are no authority on the Kennedy murder.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
And I have never once ever said I was. Ever.
MARTIN WEIDMANN SAID:
It's funny though that you apparently seem to want to explain what your motivation is for not conducting the propaganda campaign you clearly are conducting. What a joke.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I just follow the actual evidence in the case, Martin. That's all. (You know, that's the stuff that most conspiracists have chosen to mangle, skew, or just plain ignore.)
And just because I choose to believe that the evidence in the case has not all been faked and/or manufactured (and therefore my belief is that Lee Oswald was not "just a patsy"), I am accused of "conducting a bogus propaganda campaign".
Beautiful.
MARTIN WEIDMANN SAID:
You just collect some videos and have an opinion.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
And my OPINION is to be considered a "bogus propaganda campaign", but your OPINION, however, is not to be considered "propaganda" in the slightest way. Is that it, St. Martin?
Beautiful.
PROPAGANDA (noun) --- Information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.
Reprise ---->
Bonus Breath Of Fresh Air....
"It is remarkable that these conspiracy theorists aren't troubled in the least by their inability to present any evidence that Oswald was set up and framed. For them, the mere belief or speculation that he was is a more-than-adequate substitute for evidence." -- Vincent T. Bugliosi
MARTIN WEIDMANN SAID:
No. You selectively follow the evidence and deliberately ignore all the problems with that evidence.
You can believe whatever you want. The difference between your opinion and mine is that I am in no way trying to convince anybody of anything, where you have blogs (where you misrepresent and manipulate other people's postings on forums like this) and You Tube channels to desperately try to convince as many people as you can that there was no conspiracy. That's why you run a bogus propaganda campaign and I don't.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I strongly disagree with your "deliberately ignore all the problems with that evidence" and "bogus propaganda" and "misrepresent and manipulate" assessments. I do not believe I belong in those categories at all. But everybody is entitled to have their own opinions. And yours are duly noted.
REPLAY....
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I just follow the actual evidence in the case, Martin. That's all.
JOHN IACOLETTI SAID:
Given that 19 or your 21 items of “Oswald killed JFK evidence” [on this DVP webpage] are not evidence at all, that is patently absurd.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
And how many of Vincent Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence would you say are "not evidence at all"? I'm just a little curious to know if any CTer thinks ANY of The VB 53 qualifies as "evidence" or not. Start with Vincent's first 20 items, which are listed HERE.
OTTO BECK SAID:
The list shows how straight-up desperate whackjob Vince was and each of them can be dismissed in 5 seconds by anyone with basic knowledge of the case.
Like #17: there is zero evidence of Oswald ever boarding a bus to whatever rooming house he allegedly lived at.
Embarrassing to even post that link.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Yeah, I knew that's what all broken-record Internet CTers would say.
Thanks for not disappointing me, Otto. (I hope John does the same.) [He did....here.]
You continue the rich CT tradition of Not Getting It.
And I guess this item below qualifies as "zero evidence" too, eh? (Undoubtedly planted, like everything else, right?)....
OTTO BECK SAID:
How would the Marsalis bus take him to his rooming house?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
It wouldn't. And, of course, that very fact is part of the "Oswald's Change In Behavior" point that Vince Bugliosi was making in that 17th item in his "Summary Of Oswald's Guilt" book chapter:
"17. After exiting the front door of the Book Depository Building, if Oswald hadn't just murdered the president but still wanted to go home, he only had to turn left on the sidewalk in front of the building, cross Houston, and wait for the Beckley bus, which stopped at the northeast corner of Houston and Elm. This is the same bus that he took every weekday to and from work. .... But instead of waiting at the bus stop at Houston and Elm for his Beckley bus, Oswald walked past the bus stop and continued walking east on Elm, apparently wanting to get as far away as he could and looking for the very first Oak Cliff bus that came along, eventually boarding the Marsalis bus, which was proceeding westbound on Elm about seven blocks from the Book Depository Building. But the closest the Marsalis bus could possibly take him to where he lived was Marsalis and Fifth Street, requiring him, if he had stayed on the bus, to walk five blocks to the west and one block north to get to his home. Why would Oswald take a bus that he knew couldn't take him closer than a half mile from his home (when he knew
the next bus, the Beckley bus, would take him to his front door) if he weren't
in a frenzied flight from the scene of where he had done something terrible?"
-- Vincent Bugliosi; Page 959 of "Reclaiming History"
JOHN IACOLETTI SAID:
And even if Oswald did board a bus, how is that evidence of murder?
It's evidence of murder when you don't have actual evidence of murder.
OTTO BECK SAID:
Well, as I understand the argument, it was the way he boarded the bus as opposed to his every day way of boarding the bus, of which no evidence is provided, that proves his guilt. LOL
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
The key part of that "bus" item that CTers will apparently never grasp is that Oswald, on Nov. 22, decided he would walk several blocks east of his workplace to catch a bus, instead of just waiting for his Beckley Avenue bus at the bus stop which is located right on the corner of Elm & Houston. (And isn't it fairly reasonable to conclude that on days other than 11/22/63 [not counting Fridays when he went to Irving with Buell Frazier] Oswald very likely DID board his bus at the bus stop at Elm and Houston Streets? I'd say so.)
OTTO BECK SAID:
No, it's beyond stupid to expect Oswald to hang out on that street corner for the next hour, waiting to be recognised and picked up by the police.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Exactly.
And it's nice to see an Internet CTer actually admitting that Sweet Patsy Lee Harvey Oswald must have done at least something illegal on November 22, otherwise why would he be the slightest bit concerned about being "picked up by the police"?
Thanks for that admission, Otto.
At least Otto proves via the above comment that he doesn't believe in Oswald's complete innocence like many CTers do.
DAVID VON PEIN ALSO SAID:
Several of the items on Vincent Bugliosi's 53-item list are things similar in nature to that "bus" item—i.e., things which emphasize the Change In Behavior that Oswald exhibited on November 21st and 22nd, 1963. And, IMO, that type of circumstantial "evidence" should most definitely be included when constructing a list like the ones prepared by Vince Bugliosi and myself.
PAUL J. CUMMINGS SAID:
Who are these CT'ers that believe Oswald is completely innocent?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Well, as of 1988 at least, it would appear as though Jim Garrison was one such CTer. Here's what he said in '88:
"Lee Oswald was totally, unequivocally, completely innocent of the assassination .... and the fact that history, or in the re-writing of history, disinformation has made a villain out of this young man who wanted nothing more than to be a fine Marine .... is in some ways the greatest injustice of all." -- Jim Garrison; Spoken during an on-camera interview for the A&E Cable-TV mini-series "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" (Part 4; "The Patsy") (1988)
And there was also a CTer named J. Raymond Carroll, plus several other people I've talked to over the years online that have at least given me the impression that they believed Oswald was snow-white innocent on 11/22.
MARTIN WEIDMANN SAID:
We don't know if he [Oswald] was concerned about being picked up by the police. Even if he wasn't concerned about that, why would he hang around to wait for a bus that, due to what was going on, wouldn't probably come for some time?
But while we are on the subject of doing stupid things:
Why would a guy, who allegedly is on the run, not jump [on] the next bus out of town and instead take a taxi (being willing to give it up for a woman) and then, after a brief visit to his rooming house, walk down to a dead go-nowhere street in the middle of a suburban area? That's something no LN have even been able to provide a plausible or believable answer for. What in the world is a guy on the run doing there and why was he in such a hurry to get there?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Which begs an obvious question: Why was Oswald in such a hurry to leave the Depository in the first place on Nov. 22?
And why wasn't he the slightest bit interested in hanging around and seeing what all the commotion was all about?
He had literally a front-row seat for all the "action" surrounding the Book Depository immediately after the President was shot, and what does he want to do? He wants to get the heck out of the area as soon as humanly possible and go to a movie. Not logical at all---unless he's the assassin (or at the very least, he's guilty of being involved in some way in the murder that has just taken place on Elm Street).
Under those latter conditions of guilt, then Oswald's actions (fleeing the TSBD, going to his roominghouse to get his revolver, killing policeman J.D. Tippit, and then ducking into a dark movie theater without paying for the cheap ticket) all make perfect sense to me.
As for Lee Oswald's destination after leaving the TSBD --- We'll never know for certain of course, but some people have speculated that Oswald was on his way to General Walker's house to try and finish the job he failed to complete in April.
It could also be that Oswald didn't have any kind of an "escape plan" at all. Maybe he was just in a mad desperate flight after he made it out of the Depository alive, without any real focus or destination in mind at all. Perhaps he was surprised that he managed to get out of the building alive.
The inner workings of the mindset and thoughts of a Presidential assassin are, indeed, difficult to contemplate and discern. Especially when the authorities only had 48 hours to get any answers out of him.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Getting back to the topic of Elmer Todd's initials on Commission Exhibit 399...
I created this comparison "montage" showing the National Archives [NARA] and National Institute of Standards and Technology [NIST] versions of CE399, with my montage below including a clearer version of the NARA photo [when compared to this version created by Pat Speer]. I can't really see the "T" (or the "E") in the NARA picture. It's just too indistinct to make out in the NARA version, IMO.
DAVID VON PEIN LATER SAID:
FYI / FWIW....
Here's yet another "montage" photo that I just now created---this time depicting a different NARA photo of CE399 from the ones presented earlier.
And this is quite frustrating, because the area of the bullet which most definitely does contain the "ET" initials of FBI agent Elmer Todd is most certainly shown in this NARA image below---just to the right of the "K" in Charles Killion's initials. And Killion's "K" is easily discernible in both photos, indicating that Killion dug deeper into the bullet's surface with his marking than did Todd, because I can't see a trace of Todd's "E" or "T".
This only tends to emphasize the point I have made many times over the last 10 or more years --- i.e., that Todd's initials are most certainly on the bullet, but the NARA photos just aren't clear or pristine enough to capture those initials.
I enlarged the NARA pic in this montage below. To see the same photo in its original (non-enlarged) condition, go here.
David Von Pein
June 11-16, 2022
June 29, 2022
