Part 1369 of my "JFK Assassination Arguments" series includes a variety of my posts and comments covering the period of October 1—31, 2023. To read the entire forum discussion from which my own comments have been extracted, click on the "Full Discussion" logo at the bottom of each individual segment.
AN ANONYMOUS AND EXCEEDINGLY OBNOXIOUS CONSPIRACY THEORIST SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
We know that BOTH Domingo Benavides AND T.F. Bowley were inside J.D. Tippit's police car trying to report the shooting of the officer on Tenth Street on 11/22/63. But only one of those two men is heard on the DPD radio tapes---and that's Bowley.
The Warren Commission, however, was confused about who it was who actually had used the police radio, and they incorrectly said on Page 166 of the Warren Report that it was Benavides (and not Bowley) who got through to the Dallas Police Department dispatcher on Tippit's radio.
But if BOTH men had actually gotten through to the DPD dispatcher that day, then we'd have a total of THREE "citizens" (civilians) being heard on the DPD radio tapes. But we don't have three such transmissions. We only have two---Bowley's and then Ted Callaway's.
During a 2019 discussion, DVP said....
"There is at least one mistake to be found in the Warren Commission's Final Report. (And there are probably several other errors in the Report too, which wouldn't surprise or shock me at all. Finding a few relatively minor errors in a report that's nearly 900 pages in length is, I would think, perfectly normal and to be expected.)
The WC mistake I had in mind today can be found on Page 166 of the Warren Report, where there's an error concerning Domingo Benavides and the J.D. Tippit murder. The Warren Commission incorrectly thought that it was Benavides who had made the citizen's call on Tippit's police radio ("We've had a shooting out here"). But it was later learned that it was really another witness, T.F. Bowley, who made that radio call, which was done only after Benavides had been pumping (or mashing) the microphone for about ninety seconds. [See the quote below from Dale Myers' book, "With Malice".]
"Beginning at 1:16 p.m., a microphone is keyed a number of times on channel one of the Dallas police tapes, as if someone were 'pumping' the microphone button of a police radio. This continues for a little over 90 seconds, right up until the time passing motorist T.F. Bowley successfully contacts the dispatcher. .... Considering the timing of the sounds heard in the Dallas police radio recordings, and the corroborating accounts of three witnesses, the murder of Tippit probably occurred about 90 seconds prior to Benavides' bungled attempt to notify the dispatcher. Therefore, there is good reason to believe that J.D. Tippit was shot at approximately 1:14:30 p.m." -- Dale K. Myers; Pages 86-87 of "With Malice: Lee Harvey Oswald And The Murder Of Officer J.D. Tippit" (1998 Edition)
The Warren Commission was apparently relying on a truncated transcript of the Dallas Police radio tapes that appears on Page 52 of Commission Exhibit No. 1974, which is a transcript that has several radio transmissions omitted, as well as having a "long pause" of 15 seconds omitted (as we can see when comparing CE1974 with this more complete version of the DPD radio tapes).
The Commission, therefore, in trying to pinpoint the precise time of Officer Tippit's shooting, failed to take into account the extra 90 seconds of microphone clicking and pumping that was done by Benavides, which I don't think was even discovered until the 1990s when Dale Myers talked about it in his 1998 book.
So the actual time when Officer J.D. Tippit was shot and killed had to be sometime prior to 1:16 PM, because Benavides' "pumping" begins at exactly 1:16." -- DVP; August 2019
THE ANONYMOUS CONSPIRACY THEORIST SAID:
Just listen to the recording, kiddies. There is not 90 seconds of microphone keying, whoever the f**k was talking on the radio.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
What difference does it really make if there's any "keying of the microphone" or not? It makes no difference in the long run. Since we know that somebody is FIRST reporting the shooting over the radio at about 1:17 or 1:18 PM (per the DPD radio transcripts), then it's logical to assume that the shooting itself probably occurred a very few minutes before that time, at about 1:15 PM or so.
And this timeline is a big problem for the conspiracy crackpots who love to cling to their beloved "1:06" and/or "1:10" times for the Tippit shooting, because we would then have to believe the ridiculous scenario of Benavides and/or Bowley waiting for up to TEN full minutes (or more) before they got on the police radio to report the shooting. And such a long delay is utter nonsense. There's no chance in hell they waited that long to use Tippit's radio.
Also See:
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/tippit-timelines.html
DAVID VON PEIN LATER SAID:
And also see the December 2, 1963, affidavit of T.F. Bowley (excerpted below):
"On Friday, November 22, 1963...I was headed north on Marsalis and turned west on 10th Street. I traveled about a block and noticed a Dallas police squad car stopped in the traffic lane headed east on 10th Street. I saw a police officer lying next to the left front wheel. I stopped my car and got out to go to the scene. I looked at my watch and it said 1:10 pm. Several people were at the scene. When I got there the first thing I did was try to help the officer. He appeared beyond help to me. A man was trying to use the radio in the squad car but stated he didn't know how to operate it. I know how and took the radio from him. I said, "Hello, operator. A police officer has been shot here." The dispatcher asked for the location. I found out the location and told the dispatcher what it was." --T.F. Bowley; 12/2/63
David Von Pein
October 1-2, 2023
================================
GREG DOUDNA SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Greg,
You're severely overstating (i.e., misstating) Lee Harvey Oswald's alleged "alibi". Oswald never once said he was outside on the front steps of the Book Depository Building at the time when President Kennedy was being shot.
When Oswald told Captain Fritz that he was "out with Bill Shelley in front", Oswald was clearly indicating to Fritz that he had only gone "out" of the building AFTER he had already had his encounter with Police Officer Marrion Baker in the second-floor lunchroom, which was an encounter that occurred, of course, after the assassination had already taken place.
(See James W. Bookhout's 11/22/63 FBI report—HERE—for verification of the chronology of Captain Fritz' sketchy "out with Bill Shelley in front" note.)
The key words in Bookhout's report, chronology-wise, are these words:
"He thereafter went outside..."
And the more-recent discovery of James Hosty's "went outside to watch P. Parade" notes—discussed in detail HERE—have also been mischaracterized by conspiracists (IMO), because the basic chronology of those Hosty notes is identical to Bookhout's report, with Oswald (per the Hosty notes) only going outside after he had gone to the second floor to get a Coke....and we know the "Coke" excursion coincided with Oswald's encounter with Marrion Baker, which was AFTER the assassination, not DURING the assassination.
FWIW....
With regard to the identity of "Prayer Man", I'll re-post the following comments made two years ago by someone whose presence on the Depository front steps on November 22nd is not disputed by even the most hardened of conspiracy theorists:
"To answer the question about Prayer Man: I have been looking at this all day, and I can tell you this: I 100% have no idea who that person is. I can also tell you 100% that is not Lee Harvey Oswald. First, Lee was not out there. I know that to be true. Second, for anyone who thinks Prayer Man is Lee, the individual has a much larger frame than Lee."
-- Buell Wesley Frazier; March 28, 2021
DAVID VON PEIN ALSO SAID:
And even though I don't believe for one second that "Prayer Man" is Lee Harvey Oswald, I still would very much like to see the original versions of the Darnell and Wiegman films, and I'd very much like to have those films enhanced and restored to the best possible quality.
I certainly think that any such project, if a definitive "Is it Oswald or isn't it?" identification of the Prayer Man figure can be obtained, will prove very disappointing to the people who keep insisting that the blurry Prayer Man figure has got to be Lee Oswald. But I certainly am not against such a project taking place. Not in the least. As I've said before, I'm all for it.
Also See:
http://DVP's JFK Archives/"Prayer Man" Discussion
GREG DOUDNA SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Yes, I do think that Oswald claimed during his police interrogation that he ate his lunch after the assassination. And that's because this chronology....
1. Coke/Lunchroom Encounter with Officer Baker.
2. Then down to 1st floor to have lunch.
3. Then outside with Bill Shelley.
....is confirmed (or at least it is present and exists) in THREE different places within the reports or notes written by the various officials:
1. Captain Fritz' notes --- HERE.
2. James Bookhout's solo 11/22/63 FBI report --- HERE.
3. James Hosty's recently-discovered notes --- HERE.
In Hosty's notes, however, he doesn't say anything about "Shelley". He, instead, says Oswald went outside to watch the "P. Parade". But, IMO, Hosty is, in effect, conflating "Shelley" and "P. Parade". But in any event, Hosty, just like Fritz and Bookhout, has Oswald going outside only after the "Coke" and the "Lunch on 1st floor".
And Hosty, in his notes, doesn't mention the encounter Oswald had with Baker either. But there's no indication in the existing records and reports that Oswald ever said anything about going to the second floor TWO times to get a Coke on Nov. 22. So, IMO, Hosty's "went to 2nd floor to get Coca-Cola" is essentially the same thing as also referring to the encounter between LHO and Baker.
And as "absurd" as it might be to think that anyone would want to go and eat his lunch after having such an encounter with a police officer (at gunpoint) and after discovering that the President had just been shot right outside the front door of your workplace, we also have to realize that such a chronology was being provided by the person to whom all of the evidence in the assassination leads --- Lee H. Oswald.
In other words, Oswald's absurd and crazy chronology was all just one big fat lie being told by the actual assassin of President Kennedy (except for the Lunchroom Encounter with Officer Baker, of course, which actually did occur and wasn't just one of Oswald's made-up tall tales).
GREG DOUDNA SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
The key point isn't really the specific "lunch" aspect of any of Oswald's lies. (And maybe Oswald himself was having a hard time keeping his "lunch" lies straight after he was arrested.)
But the most important point, IMO, is the chronology of the "Coke/Lunchroom Encounter" and "Out front with Shelley" aspects of Oswald's attempted alibi. And whether you choose to believe Bookhout, Fritz, and Hosty or not, the fact remains that those three men (Bookhout, Fritz, & Hosty) did write things down in their notes and/or reports that definitely give the impression that OSWALD HIMSELF said he followed this chronology at around 12:30 on Nov. 22:
1. Coke/Lunchroom Encounter with Officer Baker.
2. Then down to 1st floor to have lunch.
3. Then outside with Bill Shelley.
Plus: Can anyone who believes that Oswald is the "Prayer Man" figure really and truly also believe that Oswald then decided he wanted to immediately go back into the TSBD Building and dash up to the second-floor lunchroom to buy a Coke within seconds of JFK being shot out on Elm Street in front of the building?
That scenario of Oswald being Prayer Man and then immediately having a burning desire to go get a Coca-Cola on the second floor is a very loony scenario, if you ask me. But for the conspiracy theorists who wholly endorse the "Oswald Is Prayer Man" theory, then they really have no choice but to believe such an absurd scenario. Because we know for a fact that Lee Harvey Oswald was in that 2nd-floor lunchroom with Officer Baker just a few minutes after the assassination took place.*
* Notwithstanding the many CTers who now belong to the INHAA club.
GREG DOUDNA SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Greg,
I think your made-up scenario of Oswald going back into the TSBD after the shooting is totally ludicrous. You've got him going up and down stairs and then out the back door for no really good reason (IMO).
Via your scenario, Oswald was ALREADY OUTSIDE THE BUILDING (on the steps, I assume? Or do you have him INSIDE the building, on the 1st floor, at 12:30? You seem to imply that it could have been either). But in either case, why would he possibly want to take a circuitous UP-AND-DOWN route via the two staircases just in order to get outside?! It's incredibly silly.
It's especially ridiculous from the standpoint of Oswald being INVOLVED (in at least SOME peripheral fashion) in a plot to kill JFK, because via such an involvement, Oswald would have no doubt wanted to get away from the scene of the crime as fast as he could....and since he was ALREADY OUTSIDE (if you think he is Prayer Man) or (alternatively) very near the FRONT DOOR on the 1st floor (if you think he took the SOUTHEAST stairs, which are practically right next to the FRONT entrance)....then why the heck wouldn't he just walk out the FRONT DOOR?
Plus, via your scenario, going back INTO the building itself (via the Prayer Man theory) would be mighty risky from LHO's POV too, because he would certainly have to think that the whole building was going to be sealed off very quickly after the shooting by the police (and it was, at about 12:37). So why would he have the slightest desire to go back into the building at all?
And I can't see why he would feel that leaving via the front entrance and being seen by somebody would look any worse (or be any more suspicious) than leaving by the back door. In fact, I can easily argue the opposite---that leaving by the BACK DOOR would look way more "suspicious" to anyone who might catch a glimpse of him than simply walking out the front door and exiting Dealey Plaza.
Sneaking out the back way is always a little more "fishy"-looking to most people, isn't it? In fact, aren't there many CTers who DO believe that one or more of the "real killers" of Kennedy did, indeed, sneak out the back door of the loading dock in order to make their getaway on 11/22?
I'd advise you to try again, Greg. Because your scenario of having Oswald going up and down the various stairs just in order to get out of the building is just laughable.
But, Greg, I do appreciate all the time and effort you have been putting into your very well-written posts in this thread over the last few days. I've enjoyed reading them. But this latest bit about Oswald's totally superfluous post-assassination escapade within the Book Depository is just not the slightest bit believable (IMO) and, frankly, reeks of CTer desperation.
DAVID VON PEIN ALSO SAID:
Below is a review of Bart Kamp's new 2023 book "Prayer Man: More Than A Fuzzy Picture". This well-written review, which contains opinions that I agree with 100%, was posted at Amazon by an individual using only the initials "LBP" [who, I later learned, is former Education Forum member Lance Payette]....
Review Title:
"Well-meaning and worthwhile
presentation of patent nonsense"
Full Text Of Review:
"Bart Kamp is a serious and well-meaning JFK assassination researcher who is a fixture at the Reopen the Kennedy Case forum, where the overarching theme is that LEE HARVEY OSWALD WAS COMPLETELY INNOCENT!!! This book thus reflects that perspective. More to the point, one of the obsessions there is Prayer Man, an exceedingly fuzzy photo of someone on the Texas School Book Depository steps who might well be a woman but WAS IN FACT LEE HARVEY OSWALD!!!
There is an initial mental hurdle you must overcome to find this book fascinating and worthwhile. It must make sense to you that Oswald, the designated patsy whose rifle would be found on the sixth floor of the TSBD, was nevertheless allowed by the bumbling conspirators to be standing on the steps of the TSBD at the time of the assassination.
A secondary mental hurdle is accepting that it "just so happens" that Oswald was captured in a single fuzzy photo that could well be your Aunt Tillie but not in pristinely clear photos that were or well could have been taken in Dealey Plaza on that fateful day.
A third mental hurdle, I suppose, is that Oswald never said he was standing on the steps--as I probably would've done if I'd been in his shoes and had such an ironclad alibi--and precisely no one, including the TSBD employees who actually were standing on the steps, ever said they saw him.
I confess, I am of such puny and limited imagination that I am incapable of clearing these hurdles and entering into the wild and wacky world of Prayer Man enthusiasts. I can conceive of no possible conspiracy scenario this side of "Reptilian aliens did it!!!" that would have allowed Oswald to be standing on the steps of the TSBD at the time of the assassination. Nope, sorry, I regard Prayer Man as utter and self-evident nonsense.
That being said, I emphasize again that Mr. Kamp is a serious assassination enthusiast whose Prayer Man website is a veritable goldmine of documents and information even if you regard Prayer Man as nonsense. Ditto for this book. It is chock-full of worthwhile information and links regardless of your perspective on Prayer Man. I give it 4 stars for sheer effort. I am constantly agog at some of the wild and wacky notions that seemingly sane and intelligent conspiracy enthusiasts manage to compartmentalize in their otherwise sane and intelligent minds, and this book also serves as a good illustration of why I am constantly agog." -- Lance B. Payette; August 4, 2023
DVP THEN ADDED:
For the sake of fairness and "Equal Time" with respect to reviews for Bart Kamp's "Prayer Man" book, here's a link to Greg Doudna's Amazon review of that same book:
GREG DOUDNA SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Thanks, Greg, for your detailed explanation of why you think Lee Harvey Oswald just might have had a desire to go back inside the Book Depository Building after the assassination (even though, via the "Prayer Man Is Oswald" theory, he was already outside when the shooting occurred).
You, of course, surely already know all the problems with your scenario which has Oswald possibly going back inside the building in order to get his "gray" jacket. The main problem there, of course, being that Earlene Roberts said that when Oswald came rushing into the Beckley roominghouse shortly after the assassination, he was not wearing any jacket. In her Warren Commission testimony, Mrs. Roberts said:
"He [LHO] went to his room and he was in his shirt sleeves but I couldn't tell you whether it was a long-sleeved shirt or what color it was or nothing, and he got a jacket and put it on---it was kind of a zipper jacket."
And there's also the testimony of Mary Bledsoe, who saw Oswald during the brief time when both she and Lee were on Cecil McWatters' bus on Elm Street on Nov. 22. Bledsoe is clearly a witness who aligns with Earlene Roberts' observations of Oswald not wearing any jacket between the hours of 12:30 PM and 1:00 PM CST on 11/22/63.
You can always resort to using cab driver William Whaley to support a proposed claim that Oswald was, indeed, wearing a jacket of some kind just after he left the TSBD. You can even utilize Whaley to try and support the very weird idea that Oswald was wearing a total of "two jackets" when he was riding next to Whaley in his taxicab on Nov. 22.
But if you choose to use Whaley's testimony, you'll then have to wonder why neither of those other witnesses (Bledsoe and Roberts) saw the jacket(s) that Mr. Whaley said he saw Oswald wearing. ~shrug~
Another one of your "possibilities" (to potentially explain why LHO would want to go back into the TSBD after the shooting) is based on something that is unquestionably a lie that was told by Lee Oswald --- the "curtain rods" story. So Oswald, quite obviously, could not possibly have wanted to go back into the Depository to retrieve any curtain rods, since those "rods" only existed in Oswald's made-up story that he fabricated for Buell Wesley Frazier's benefit.
I, of course, have an advantage over conspiracy theorists like Gregory Doudna, in that I don't need to concoct all kinds of cloak-and-dagger scenarios to explain Lee Oswald's behavior on November 22nd. And that's because I'm confident of the following fact (beyond all reasonable doubt):
David Von Pein
October 4-6, 2023
================================
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
The Lunchroom Encounter (Revisited):
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/Lunchroom Encounter
Excerpt....
"Why can't conspiracists accept Marrion Baker's "third or fourth floor" statement for what it so clearly is — a simple and honest mistake made by a police officer who was in a chaotic and frantic situation within minutes of the President having just been shot, and who was not paying close attention at all to what floor he was standing on when he pointed his gun at Lee Harvey Oswald's stomach in the lunchroom on November 22, 1963?" -- DVP; December 2017
GREG PARKER SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Excerpt from FBI agent James Bookhout's 11/22/63 report:
"OSWALD stated that on November 22, 1963, at the time of the search of the Texas School Book Depository building by Dallas police officers, he was on the second floor of said building, having just purchased a Coca-cola from the soft-drink machine, at which time a police officer came into the room with pistol drawn and asked him if he worked there."
Key phrases in the above Bookhout report:
"OSWALD STATED..."
and
"HE WAS ON THE SECOND FLOOR..."
So, apparently Greg Parker thinks that James W. Bookhout just IMAGINED Oswald saying those things (even though Bookhout was right there in Fritz' office with Oswald when Oswald "stated" those various things.
Or did Bookhout just MAKE UP those things that he said Oswald had "stated"?
You've got room for one more liar (Bookhout) on your front porch, don't you Gregory?
GREG PARKER SAID:
Why do you believe Bookhout?
Fritz report: "I asked him what part of the building he was in at the time the President was shot, and he said that he was having his lunch about that time on the first floor. Mr. Truly had told me that one of the police officers had stopped this man immediately after the shooting somewhere near the back stairway, so I asked Oswald where he was when the police officer stopped him. He said he was on the second floor drinking a coca cola when the officer came in."
So Truly initially lied saying the encounter was near the back stairway AND OSWALD told the truth that it was in the 2nd floor lunchroom -- according to you? Correct?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
The encounter WAS near the "back stairway". The stairs are practically right next to where Baker stopped Oswald.
And the Holmes/Batchelor stuff certainly does NOT, in any fashion, negate the 2nd-Floor Lunchroom Encounter. No way. No how.
Harry Holmes' Warren Commission testimony [at 7 H 302], which you [Greg Parker] referred to in a previous post, is quite clearly referring to the 2nd-floor encounter, not anything that happened between Oswald and a police officer on the FIRST floor.
How can we know that for certain?
Easy. Because there were no cops in the Book Depository clearing the employees to leave at 12:33 PM (which is the approximate time Oswald left the building). Hence, Harry Holmes can't possibly be referring to the "Police Clearing The Employees At The Front Door" situation when referring to anything relating to OSWALD on 11/22/63.
David Von Pein
October 15, 2023
================================
GREG DOUDNA SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Seems like a mighty weak theory to me, Greg. And many (most) of the things on your 10-item list that you've labelled as "facts" are, of course, not really "facts" at all. They are merely your own opinions and suspicions.
Like nearly all JFK conspiracy theories, Greg Doudna's latest effort is full of guesswork and speculation, and is merely another attempt by a conspiracist to avoid the obvious. With that "obvious" being (IMO):
Lee Oswald brought his own rifle to work with him on Nov. 22 (after an unusual Thursday-night trip to Irving), with Oswald himself then using that rifle to shoot JFK from the sixth floor of the Depository.*
* With Oswald unquestionably lying to Wesley Frazier about his real reason for going out to Irving on Thursday night. (The curtain rod story being the provable lie that he told to Frazier.)
But at least you (Greg Doudna) have found a way to get that rifle out of Ruth Paine's garage without anyone needing to break into the garage in order to steal it (as some CTers have theorized). You certainly deserve a point for that.
But via your theory, if Oswald himself didn't bring the rifle into the TSBD, who do you think did? Do you think it might have been one of Oswald's fellow TSBD employees? Or was it a stranger? Any idea at all?
Related thoughts:
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/two-things-that-prove-oswald's-guilt
GREG DOUDNA SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Greg,
If Oswald had actually given his rifle to somebody else between Nov. 11 and 22, then Oswald would have certainly told the police that very important fact after he was arrested and charged with committing a murder that he (under those conditions) very likely never committed.
Would Oswald have had every reason under the sun to admit to the cops that he had given his rifle to another person prior to Nov. 22 if such a rifle transaction was actually the truth? Yes, of course he would. (Especially after being shown the backyard photo on Nov. 23.)
But did Oswald say anything to the authorities about some other person coming into possession of his Carcano rifle? No, he didn't.
GREG DOUDNA SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
If Lee Oswald was an accomplice, then you're right. Oswald, under those make-believe conditions, certainly wouldn't have wanted to tell the cops that he had handed off the murder weapon to somebody else within the context of Oswald himself KNOWING that the "other person" was going to kill the President with it.
But my last post was based on an assumption that you, Gregory Doudna, were very likely of the opinion that Lee Oswald was completely blameless for the assassination (i.e., he wasn't a shooter and he was also not an "accomplice").
Maybe my assumption was inaccurate? ~shrug~
In any event, your entire "November 11" theory is nothing but 100% guesswork and speculation on your part, and you've got a HUGE hurdle to climb if you really expect anyone here to believe that Lee Oswald REALLY had his "lunch" in that large-ish paper sack on 11/22. Because if that was the case, then we've got no choice but to paint Buell Frazier as a major story-teller (liar) with regard to TWO key aspects of his post-assassination story and testimony---
1. The part about Lee telling Buell that the package contained curtain rods (a very silly thing for Oswald to say, of course, if the bag really had a sandwich and an apple in it).
2. And the part of Buell's story where he says he specifically asked Oswald about his lunch that morning (Nov. 22), with Oswald telling Frazier that he was going to buy his lunch that day.
And I think any explanation that you (or anyone else) comes up with to try and logically explain away BOTH the "curtain rods" lie that Oswald quite clearly did tell Buell Wesley Frazier on both Nov. 21 and 22....plus the "No Lunch / LHO Said He Was Going To Buy His Lunch" testimony provided by Frazier....is destined to be a very weak (and desperate!) explanation indeed.
Plus, if Oswald's paper bag contained merely his lunch, then why didn't Lee fold down the bag after he put his lunch inside of it? Don't tell me a cheese sandwich and an apple took up 27 inches of space? Remember, the amount of the bag that was visible on the back seat of Frazier's 1954 Chevy, according to Frazier's own observations, was measured and was found to be about 27 inches (per Frazier's own estimate).
In addition, there's Frazier's "Tucked under his armpit" story too, which would mean that this long bag that you (Greg) think held merely a person's "lunch", was being carried by Oswald into the Book Depository in a very strange manner---with Frazier claiming Oswald had one end "cupped" in his right hand, with the other end stuck up under his armpit. Who on Earth would carry their lunch bag in such a strange non-folded-up manner? It makes no logical sense whatsoever. You'd be better off going back to saying the package contained curtain rods.
And....
No, I do not think that Lee Harvey Oswald removed his rifle from Ruth Paine's garage on November 11th, 1963, and I most certainly do not believe that Oswald (with Marina and his two daughters in tow) .... quoting Greg Doudna .... "borrowed Michael Paine's blue-and-white Olds parked in front of Ruth's house, and Lee drove himself and Marina with their two children to a gunsmith to have the scope, which had come with the rifle and then had been removed by Oswald, reinstalled on it."
That latter part about Oswald using Michael Paine's car is, in my opinion, a preposterous story. (For one thing, why would Lee want to drag his wife and two tiny children with him to the Irving Sports Shop? For what purpose would they be needed on such a journey?)
GREG DOUDNA SAID:
https://scrollery.com/2023/02/Irving-Sport-Shop.pdf
MARCUS FULLER SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Excerpt from Vincent Bugliosi's book (click to enlarge):
MARCUS FULLER SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Marcus,
Lee's wife, Marina, testified that she personally saw the rifle inside the blanket in Ruth Paine's garage. So it wasn't merely a wild GUESS on the part of Marina that a rifle was in the blanket.
Many conspiracy theorists, naturally, think Marina Oswald was telling a bunch of lies when she testified in the following manner in early 1964:
MARINA OSWALD -- After we arrived, I tried to put the bed, the child's crib together, the metallic parts, and I looked for a certain part, and I came upon something wrapped in a blanket. I thought that was part of the bed, but it turned out to be the rifle.
[Later....]
J. LEE RANKIN -- After your husband returned from Mexico, did you examine the rifle in the garage at any time?
MRS. OSWALD -- I had never examined the rifle in the garage. It was wrapped in a blanket and was lying on the floor.
MR. RANKIN -- Did you ever check to see whether the rifle was in the blanket?
MRS. OSWALD -- I never checked to see that. There was only once that I was interested in finding out what was in that blanket, and I saw that it was a rifle.
MR. RANKIN -- When was that?
MRS. OSWALD -- About a week after I came from New Orleans.
MR. RANKIN -- And then you found that the rifle was in the blanket, did you?
MRS. OSWALD -- Yes, I saw the wooden part of it, the wooden stock.
MARCUS FULLER SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
But given the situation Marina Oswald was confronted with after the assassination --- her husband is dead, she has no money, very few friends, speaks very little English, and she's now on her own and living in a country that's foreign to her --- can you think of one good reason under the sun WHY she would be afraid (or unwilling) to go back to her native Russia?
In other words, why on Earth would she have been afraid of being "deported"?
The "Marina Was Afraid Of Being Deported" line of reasoning has never made any sense to me at all. But apparently it does make sense to most conspiracy theorists. But I would think that Marina would have been anxious and eager to get back to her USSR homeland, which is where her family and friends were located.
Marina did later say that she did want to remain in the United States. But the notion that has been advanced over the years by various conspiracy theorists that she was deathly afraid of being "deported" back to the Soviet Union (and therefore she lied her ass off on numerous occasions in her Warren Commission testimony in order to avoid deportation) is, in my opinion, a totally ridiculous and illogical notion.
David Von Pein
October 16-19, 2023
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GARY AGUILAR SAID:
The only non-rigged skull shooting tests were done by the US Government. They showed the obvious: when a bony skull is struck with a MCC shell it travels away from the shooter, not toward her.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Well, technically, JFK's head initially did travel away from the shooter --- for about 2.3 inches anyway:
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Also See:
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/02/head-shot.html
And the "Jet Effect" has been proven (over and over again), such as this example:
GARY AGUILAR SAID:
Oh, so your "proof" of "jet effect" comes from two comedians? That's hilarious!
Back here on earth, here's what credentialed authorities, working for the U.S. Government, found when they did credible "duplication" skull shooting tests.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Comedians or not, this video proves the "Jet Effect" can (and will) occur when an object is struck by a Mannlicher-Carcano 6.5mm bullet. That's the point.
WHO CARES who it was who did the firing of the rifle? I sure don't. Captain Kangaroo or Pee Wee Herman could have been doing the shooting for all I care. The Jet Effect would still have been proven.
DAVID VON PEIN ALSO SAID:
I know that Luis Alvarez' "Jet Effect" theory is a very controversial and debated theory indeed. But any "problems" that anyone has with the "Jet Effect" theory are completely irrelevant when it comes to the two most important questions that need to be answered concerning President John F. Kennedy's head wounds, which are these two questions:
1. How many total bullets struck JFK in the head?
and
2. From what direction did those bullet(s) come?
And the answers to those two questions, based on the official autopsy findings, are crystal clear and ironclad (albeit disputed, as always, by virtually every conspiracy theorist who walks the planet), with those ironclad answers being (regardless of whether anybody believes in the "Jet Effect" or not):
ONE and only ONE bullet struck the skull of President Kennedy, with that one bullet entering the BACK portion of JFK's head. Hence, the one and only head shot came FROM BEHIND the Presidential limousine in Dealey Plaza.
An exasperated Dr. James J. Humes put it very well in 1992 when he said this (which is as true today as it was then):
David Von Pein
October 23-24, 2023
[Via E-Mail]
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DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
After having just now [on October 13, 2023] read the key "bullet" portions of Paul Landis' newly-released book "The Final Witness" (via the book excerpts that have been made available on this webpage), some additional problems and questions arise, with one of these problems being a massively important one regarding the precise location of where Landis says he left the whole bullet that he says he found on the top of the back seat in the Presidential limo.
All of the available testimony from the Parkland Hospital personnel makes it clear that President Kennedy was never moved from his stretcher (gurney) during the entire time the President was being treated in Trauma Room No. 1. This fact is confirmed in the Warren Commission testimony of Parkland's Dr. Robert McClelland:
ARLEN SPECTER -- Was he [President Kennedy] on the stretcher at all times?
DR. ROBERT N. McCLELLAND -- Yes.
MR. SPECTER -- In the trauma room No. 1 you described, is there any table onto which he could be placed from the stretcher?
DR. McCLELLAND -- No; generally we do not move patients from the stretcher until they are ready to go into the operating room and then they are moved onto the operating table.
MR. SPECTER -- Well, in fact, was he left on the stretcher all during the course of these procedures until he was pronounced dead?
DR. McCLELLAND -- That's right.
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Plus, there's this information concerning JFK's stretcher.
Former Secret Service agent Paul Landis, however, says something completely different in his book. He says this (quoting from the book itself):
"As I entered—or, more to the point, was pushed into—the trauma room, the president’s lifeless body was already being lifted off the gurney and placed onto a white cotton blanket that covered the surface of a stainless-steel examination table in the middle of the room." [End Quote.]
Landis then goes on to say this in his book:
"I removed the bullet from my pocket, and reaching out over the examination table, I carefully placed it on the white cotton blanket next to the president’s left shoe." [End Quote.]
But let's now compare the above book excerpt with the following statement made by the same Mr. Landis just one month ago:
"I put the bullet on the gurney right by his [JFK's] feet" -- Paul Landis; September 12, 2023 (NBC Interview)
So the question of great importance now becomes: Did Landis drop the bullet onto JFK's stretcher/"gurney"? Or did he leave it on an "examination table"?
That's an exceedingly important question to answer, because if we're to believe he left it on an exam table instead of the stretcher (with a stretcher, of course, having wheels on it, which means it could easily be moved from one part of the hospital to another), we've then got to ask: How, then, did that bullet (if it was really CE399, which Mr. Landis does seem to think it was) manage to get from the exam table to a stretcher in the corridor of Parkland Hospital, where it was then found by hospital employee Darrell C. Tomlinson a short time later?
Another possible problem with Landis' story crops up in the book excerpts linked above, although this "problem" isn't nearly as important or imperative as the "gurney vs. exam table" head-scratcher. This additional problem concerns the timing of Vice President Johnson's arrival at Parkland Hospital on 11/22/63. Landis says in his book that LBJ and the Vice President's Secret Service car had not yet arrived at Parkland Hospital by the time JFK's body was being lifted out of the back seat and onto a stretcher. Quoting again from Mr. Landis' book:
"The vice president’s limo had yet to arrive, so there were no agents from his detail in sight. In fact, there were no other agents in sight anywhere to the rear, to my right, or to the front. Where are they? Where the hell is SA Greer? He was driving the president’s limo. He should be here. The follow-up car was empty too. Where the hell is Special Agent Sam Kinney? He was driving it. Jeez, oh man! Where the hell is everyone? Where did all the agents go? Who is going to secure the car AND THE CRIME SCENE? Everyone seemed to be crowded around the president’s body. No one was paying attention to anything else. My immediate concern was the bullet. It would be visible to anyone happening to walk by. What about photographers? Or worse yet, What about a souvenir hunter? Thoughts continued to race through my mind." [End Quote.]
But with regard to Vice President Lyndon Johnson and his exact whereabouts at the time when President Kennedy was being wheeled into the hospital, there is evidence (via the observations of ambulance driver Aubrey Rike) which would indicate that Johnson actually entered Parkland Hospital prior to the time when either JFK or wounded Governor John Connally entered the emergency room entrance.
Listen to the chronology of events provided by Aubrey Rike, in two separate interviews he did on November 22, 1963, HERE.
If Rike's chronology of the timing for when each man entered the hospital is correct --- i.e., Johnson, then Connally, then Kennedy --- that would, in my opinion, place a serious cloud of doubt over Mr. Landis' account (and his mindset) concerning those same events.
Because if LBJ's car and his Secret Service follow-up car were actually there at the hospital prior to Landis and JFK and Mrs. Kennedy exiting the limo and going into the emergency room, it would also mean that Mr. Landis would very likely have had no reason to say this to himself --- "Where did all the agents go? Who is going to secure the car AND THE CRIME SCENE?" --- because there would have still been plenty of SS agents there at Parkland to look after the limousine/"crime scene".
So with each passing glance at Paul Landis' new 2023 story regarding the events of November 22nd, more and more questions (and doubts) seem to surface.
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Also See:
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/Paul Landis
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David Von Pein
October 13, 2023
