A DISCUSSION ABOUT CURTAINS, CURTAIN RODS, AND LEE HARVEY OSWALD'S RENTED ROOM ON
BECKLEY AVENUE:
MARTIN SHACKELFORD SAID:
The size is accurate, and consistent with the folds in the bag as well as the testimony. Telescoped, the curtain rods could have been up to 45+ inches long. [Buell Wesley] Frazier had wrapped curtain rods at a prior job, and accepted the bag as containing them. It certainly didn't contain a 34.5 inch disassembled rifle.
BROCK T. GEORGE SAID:
And LHO needed/used these curtain rods where?
MARTIN SHACKELFORD SAID:
Perhaps on the windows where his landlady was photographed putting up curtains the next day, Brock.
VINNIE TIETO SAID:
Martin, surely you're aware that there are photos of Oswald's room with curtains and curtain rods in place on 11/22?
MARTIN SHACKELFORD SAID:
Show us a Nov. 22 photo, Vinnie.
VINNIE TIETO SAID:
Martin, the famous picture of Oswald's room by Allan Grant of LIFE magazine is claimed to have been taken on the afternoon of Nov. 22 [see photo below]. I assume you disagree. What is your evidence? Also (thanks to David Von Pein for this one): Hugh Aynesworth claimed to have been in the room on Nov. 22 and seen curtain rods. Do you think he's a liar?
CLICK FOR LARGER VIEW:
MARTIN SHACKELFORD SAID:
Historian David Wrone found that curtain rods were discovered in a storage building. Howard Roffman interviewed the Black Star photographer, Gene Daniels. On Saturday morning (11/23) he took some photos, explaining to Roffman that he observed the landlady and her husband hammering the curtain rods back into position. She didn’t want photos taken until after she put “the curtains back up.”
Daniels told Roffman, “She said that newsmen the evening before had disturbed the room and she didn’t want anyone to see it messed up.”
Roffman comments, “It seems doubtful in the extreme that the activity of newsmen the night before could physically have removed curtain rods from the wall in Oswald’s room.”
Black Star photographer Gene Daniel photographed Oswald's landlady putting up curtain rods on Saturday, November 23 [see photo below].
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Bottom Line --- If Lee Oswald REALLY had curtain rods in his package on 11/22/63, he would most certainly have TOLD THE POLICE THAT FACT after his arrest.
I need a conspiracy theorist to provide one reasonable explanation for Oswald denying all knowledge of any "curtain rods" after his arrest if, in fact, he REALLY DID carry curtain rods into the Book Depository Building on November 22nd.
Was Lee afraid the police were going to accuse him of shooting the President with a set of curtain rods? And the convenient CTer excuse of "The cops all lied about everything Oswald said while in custody" dodge is just a cop-out, of course.
VINNIE TIETO SAID:
Gladys Johnson to Warren Commission re Curtain Rods:
JOSEPH BALL -- How is this room furnished that Oswald rented?
GLADYS JOHNSON -- A very small room; it had an old fashioned clothes closet that had a place to hang your clothes and drawer space for your underwear, your socks and everything, and then it also had a cabinet space anyone could have stored food or, well I mean bundles of things, you know, and then I had a dresser and a bed and a heater and a little refrigerated unit.
Mr. BALL -- A refrigerating unit?
Mrs. JOHNSON -- Yes, sir; a window unit.
Mr. BALL -- You mean it cooled the room?
Mrs. JOHNSON -- Yes, sir; and it had curtains and venetian blinds.
Mr. BALL -- What kind of curtains did it have?
Mrs. JOHNSON -- Well, it just had side drapes and panels.
Mr. BALL -- Were the curtains on curtain rods?
Mrs. JOHNSON -- Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL -- They were in the room when he rented it?
Mrs. JOHNSON -- Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL -- Did Oswald ever talk to you about redecorating his room?
Mrs. JOHNSON -- No sir; never mentioned it.
Mr. BALL -- Did he ever talk to you about putting up new curtains in his room?
Mrs. JOHNSON -- No, sir.
Mr. BALL -- Did he ever tell you he was going to get some curtain rods?
Mrs. JOHNSON -- No; he didn't.
Mr. BALL -- The room had curtain rods on the window when he came in there?
Mrs. JOHNSON -- Yes, sir; sure did.
Mr. BALL -- Also curtains?
Mrs. JOHNSON -- Yes, sir.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Also, here's the testimony of Mr. A.C. Johnson (husband of Gladys), who verifies that DIFFERENT curtains were installed in Oswald's room between the time of the assassination and the time when Mr. Johnson was testifying on April 1, 1964....
DAVID BELIN -- Do you have any curtains on those windows?
A.C. JOHNSON -- Yes.
Mr. BELIN -- Did you have curtains at that time on the windows?
Mr. JOHNSON -- Yes.
Mr. BELIN -- How were the curtains put up--by curtain rods, or by what?
Mr. JOHNSON -- Yes. Curtain rods. Yes. They were just on regular curtain rods.
Mr. BELIN -- There were already curtain rods in the room, then, when this O.H. Lee came there, is that correct?
Mr. JOHNSON -- Yes, uh-huh.
Mr. BELIN -- Could you describe the curtains at all, that were in there, if you remember them, or not?
Mr. JOHNSON -- No; I couldn't.
Mr. BELIN -- Would those curtains still be on there today? Or might you have different ones now?
Mr. JOHNSON. No; we'd have different curtains now.
H.P. ALBARELLI SAID:
Mrs. Johnson told the FBI that when the DPD searched the room they bent the rod--then she and her husband replaced it.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
The whole subject of the picture of Gladys Johnson fiddling with the curtains and rods in Oswald's room is totally irrelevant anyway.
Why, you might ask?
Because we KNOW that Lee Oswald's package on 11/22/63 did NOT contain any curtain rods (regardless of whether his room on Beckley needed new rods or not).
How can we be 100% confident that the package contained no rods?
Because if it did contain rods, two important things would most definitely have happened on November 22nd....
1.) Oswald would have admitted to the police, when asked, that his package DID contain rods. (Because why on Earth would he want to LIE about something like that if he really DID bring curtain rods to work that day? Lying about it only makes him look more suspicious and more guilty of hiding something.)
2.) The curtain rods would have been found SOMEWHERE shortly after the assassination, either in the TSBD or in Oswald's room (if he had taken them with him when he left the building on 11/22). But no rods turned up anyplace.
Those two things make it a virtual certainty that NO CURTAIN RODS EXISTED in Oswald's package on November 22nd.
How can anyone possibly fight the logic in the previous argument?
MARTIN SHACKELFORD SAID:
David, curtain rods were recently reported to have been found by employees in a small building where employees stored their belongings--which might explain why he had them when he left Frazier's car, but not when he entered the building.
The document discovery was reported by historian David Wrone, who spoke at the Mid-America Conference on History, held in Springfield, Missouri, in September 2012, broadcast on C-Span.
We also know that there were four curtain rods in the Paine garage, according to Michael Paine (WCH IX: 461), but only 2 were found after November 22. The curtain rods, which were placed in evidence, were the right size to fit in a 22-28 inch bag as described by Frazier and Randle.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I found the pertinent information concerning why Mrs. Gladys Johnson, the owner of the Beckley Avenue roominghouse, was fiddling with the curtains and the curtain rod in Oswald's room shortly after the assassination.
The information is found in Warren Commission Document No. 705 and contains an April 2, 1964, FBI letter from J. Edgar Hoover to the Warren Commission, which includes detailed information about Lee Harvey Oswald's room and an interview with Gladys Johnson which took place on March 20, 1964. This information aligns itself with the "bent" curtain rod that H.P. Albarelli mentioned in a previous post too.
But the big hunk of info comes on page 3 of CD705, which is where we find these words:
[Quote:]
"Mrs. Johnson stated that when the Dallas, Texas, Police searched this room following Oswald's arrest, they bent the rod which held the drapes and curtains. Consequently, she stated, she had the old rod taken down and replaced it with a traverse rod and aqua-colored acetate drapes. A traverse rod and acetate drapes replaced the lace curtain which was on the end wall window."
[End quote.]
That should pretty much end any debate over what Mrs. Johnson was doing with the curtains on November 23, 1963.
2019 EDIT -- And here's a photograph of Oswald's room showing the damaged curtain rod. This picture was probably taken on either November 22 or 23:
MARTIN SHACKELFORD SAID:
David, picking one account and claiming that it "ends any debate" is disingenuous.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
So, Martin, does your last comment indicate that you think that Commission Document No. 705 is a fake or a fraud? You surely don't want to travel down that rocky road, do you Martin?
MARTIN SHACKELFORD SAID:
Plucking one item out of a large volume because it agrees with you makes it misleading, not fake.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Oh, come now, Martin.
Isn't it obvious what happened here? The police bent the curtain rod, just as H.P. Albarelli said in his post four days ago in this Facebook thread on May 14th at 3:47 PM EDT, and then Mrs. Johnson replaced the rod (and the curtains too).
And that's what the Black Star photographer took a picture of Mrs. Johnson doing on November 23rd--replacing a broken curtain rod with a new one.
What other possible explanation can the conspiracy crowd offer up? Do you still think that Mrs. Johnson was putting up curtains and a curtain rod on November 23 due to the fact the room had NO CURTAINS OR ROD there at all when Oswald was living in that room--even though CD705 is staring you in the face, along with the previously-supplied testimony of both Mr. Johnson and Mrs. Johnson, in which they BOTH said that the room HAD been furnished with curtain rods and curtains when Oswald was living there?
Such a theory would make both of the Johnsons out to be liars. And you surely can't believe anything that silly, can you?
David Von Pein
May 2014
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BEN HOLMES SAID:
It's interesting that [Vincent] Bugliosi goes on to state: "Indeed, Allen [sic] Grant, a photographer for Life magazine, took a photo of Oswald's room on the afternoon of the assassination, and it clearly shows the curtain rods that were already in his room."
But he ALSO certainly knows about the photos taken the following morning, showing curtains being installed. (using a hammer to do it!)
So what's the story?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Here's the story (which Ben is either unaware or, or he just wants to ignore):
A policeman bent and damaged the curtain rod that was in Lee Oswald's room on 11/22/63, and therefore the landlady had to put up a new rod the next day (November 23). See Commission Document #705 to confirm these facts.
And, as usual, Vincent Bugliosi does, indeed, talk about these matters in his 2007 book, "Reclaiming History". No lies, just the raw facts. (See Pages 407 and 408 of Endnotes in Vince's book, shown in the image below, which are pages that also cover the "dusted for prints" topic relating to some curtain rods as well.)
David Von Pein
January 23, 2017
