RICH POPE SAID:
Julia Postal, the person who was working in the Texas Theatre the day Oswald slipped into the movies without buying a ticket, claimed she called police. However, because of all the commotion from the assassination, this phone call never went through. The telephone lines were all tied-up.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
That's total nonsense. Of course the call went through to the police.
Julia Postal, in her 1964 Warren Commission testimony, tells us all about that phone call [at 7 H 11-12].
Do conspiracy theorists actually believe all of this testimony regarding the "phone call" is nothing but a made-up lie?....
JULIA POSTAL -- "...and I said "I am going to call the police, and you [Johnny Brewer] and Butch [Burroughs] go get on each of the exit doors and stay there." So, well, I called the police, and he wanted to know why I thought it was their man, and I said, "Well, I didn't know," and he said, "Well, it fits the description," and I have not---I said I hadn't heard the description. All I know is, "This man is running from them for some reason." And he wanted to know why, and told him because every time the sirens go by he would duck and he wanted to know---well, if he fits the description is what he says. I said, "Let me tell you what he looks like and you take it from there." And explained that he had on this brown sports shirt and I couldn't tell you what design it was, and medium height, ruddy looking to me, and he said, "Thank you," and I called the operator and asked him to look through the little hole and see if he could see anything and told him I had called the police, and what was happening, and he wanted to know if I wanted him to cut the picture off, and I says, "No, let's wait until they get here." So, seemed like I hung up the intercom phone when here all of a sudden, police cars, policemen, plainclothesmen, I never saw so many people in my life."
RICH POPE SAID:
Researcher Jones Harris interviewed Ms. Postal and asked her if she had in fact sold a ticket to Oswald, she burst into tears and left the room. A short time later, Harris again asked Postal if she had in fact sold a ticket to Oswald and got the same response. From Postal's refusal to answer this question and her reaction being the same, Harris believes that Postal did in fact sell Oswald a theater ticket but was forced to lie to protect her own life.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Then Mr. Jones Harris would have had no choice but to call Johnny Brewer a liar as well, because Brewer testified this way in 1964:
JOHNNY BREWER -- "He [Oswald] walked into the Texas Theatre and I walked up to the theatre, to the box office and asked Mrs. Postal if she sold a ticket to a man who was wearing a brown shirt, and she said no, she hadn't."
So, unless Johnny Brewer was lying, it means that Julia Postal had told Brewer immediately after Oswald entered the Texas Theater on 11/22/63 that the person in question in the brown shirt had not purchased a ticket.
Plus, there is Mrs. Postal's 12/4/63 affidavit, in which Postal says:
"I called the Police Department. .... The officer asked me if the man bought a ticket, and I told him no, he did not."
I suppose conspiracy believers will now gripe because Mrs. Postal didn't fill out her affidavit until December 4th, twelve days after the assassination.
But, as I mentioned earlier, in order for Postal to be lying about the "selling Oswald a ticket" subject, we'd have to believe that John Brewer ALSO decided to join the large brigade of liars that CTers think were connected with this murder case too.
Just how much of this constant "Liar, Liar" talk from the conspiracy theorists is a reasonable person supposed to tolerate before fighting back with a little common sense?
MICAH MILETO SAID:
Why are you not allowed to say "liar" here [at The Education Forum]?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I guess it's because the moderators don't want the forum members calling each other liars.
I think the Xing out of certain words at forums is a little silly. And it must really handicap the CTers around this place especially, because now they can't get the L word to show up in their posts even when they're talking about people like Specter, Belin, Ford, Dulles, Warren, McCloy, Hoover, Ruth Paine, Michael Paine, Buell Frazier, Robert Frazier, Westbrook, Wade, Curry, Fritz, Bledsoe, McDonald, Gerald Hill, Brennan, etc. etc. to L-Word infinity.
Not being able to utilize that L Word must cut a CTer's vocabulary in half when discussing the JFK assassination. Because without all those rotten and evil
L Words running around manufacturing evidence against Patsy Oswald, the conspiracy theorists would have no case at all.
ADAM JOHNSON SAID:
Hi David,
All of your above post is sound and reasonable....
Now play detective for a minute ..... What logical reason would explain why Postal burst into tears not once but twice when asked "did you sell Oswald a ticket"?
Simple question, easy Yes or No answer.....why then does she break down?????
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I can't answer that question. Nobody can (except Julia herself). I have no idea why she would burst into tears at that moment. But I'd sure like to hear a tape recording of that particular conversation between Jones Harris and Julia Postal, in order to confirm that she "broke down" at the exact time during the interview when Harris apparently said she did.
Perhaps she was merely distraught and upset about the events of the entire day (e.g., the President being murdered plus the murder of a police officer who previously had worked at the Texas Theater). Perhaps Mrs. Postal was a person who couldn't help breaking down whenever the events of 11/22/63 were brought up. I don't know.
ADAM JOHNSON SAID:
Perhaps when he (Oswald) gets dragged out, she realizes she did sell that man a ticket, but it's too late to change her story.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
But why would she feel it was "too late" to tell the truth about it? If she really had sold Oswald a ticket and she merely made an honest mistake when she told Johnny Brewer (and the police on the telephone) that she hadn't sold him one, why would she necessarily feel obligated to stick to her first (incorrect) story? That doesn't make sense to me.
Also....
Regardless of whether Julia Postal sold Lee Harvey Oswald a movie ticket on November 22nd or not, the fact will remain (for all time) that the gun that Oswald carried into that movie theater that day was proven to be the gun that killed Police Officer J.D. Tippit. And nothing can change that irrevocable ballistics fact.
PAUL JOLLIFFE SAID:
David,
I assume you are writing in good faith. There is much more to the Johnny Brewer story than originally told - Brewer knew “Oswald” from weeks before! And, according to Robert Groden, Brewer didn’t like him!
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Well, Paul, excuse me if I take anything uttered by Robert J. Groden with a large hunk of salt by my side.
PAUL JOLLIFFE SAID:
Brewer’s own Warren Commission testimony hints at a previous awareness and dislike of “Oswald”, but David Belin didn’t want to pursue that.
Brewer later was very specific in an interview in the 1990’s that he certainly did recognize “Oswald” from before.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Yes, Brewer certainly did say in his Commission testimony that he had previously seen Oswald. But can you please point out the testimony where Brewer expresses any "dislike" toward Oswald at all? Because I can't seem to find that. And you surely aren't referring to the part in Brewer's testimony when he says that Oswald looked "funny", are you? Because the kind of "funny" Brewer was talking about certainly cannot be used to imply any "dislike" toward Oswald at all. Brewer meant that Oswald's "funny" appearance was (to quote a definition of the word "funny" from an online dictionary) "difficult to account for". Here is Brewer's exact quote to the Warren Commission....
"He just looked funny to me. Well, in the first place, I had seen him someplace before. I think he had been in my store before. And when you wait on somebody, you recognize them, and he just seemed funny. His hair was sort of messed up and looked like he had been running, and he looked scared, and he looked funny." -- Johnny Brewer; 1964
PAUL JOLLIFFE SAID:
Whether or not Johnny Brewer actually heard ANY description of the suspect in the assassination is hotly disputed, but even so, Brewer’s description of the suspicious man in the doorway was not what the DPD was looking for.
Julia Postal’s call to the DPD (for which no transcript or tape exists, now or then), is strange on the face of it - how could she describe a “suspect” to the police IF SHE HERSELF NEVER SAW HIM?
After all, she didn’t sell him a ticket, right?
And she didn’t knowingly let people sneak into the theater, right?
She never saw Johnny Brewer’s suspect!
So how could she describe him to the cops?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I think she got most of the description from Johnny Brewer before she called the police. That scenario isn't impossible, is it?
Now, granted, Julia Postal did say that she told the police on the phone that the suspect who entered the theater had a complexion that was "ruddy looking to me", indicating that she herself had gotten a look at the man's face. But I think even that "ruddy" comment could have originated with Johnny Brewer, with Mrs. Postal then incorporating that part of the description provided by Brewer into her own narrative by the time she testified in front of the Warren Commission.
Or, as an alternative to what I just said, Julia could have gotten enough of a look at Oswald as he ducked into the theater to notice his "ruddy" complexion. Postal, in her December '63 affidavit, did say "I had noticed him as he ducked in here".
PAUL JOLLIFFE SAID:
Curiously, Ron Reiland's own narration of his own film footage of the cops in Oak Cliff describes and shows the DPD reacting to a report that a man was seen entering the Texas Theater armed with a shotgun!
Reiland’s own narration was broadcast late in the afternoon of November 22.
Because what he had to say, based on what he had just been told by DPD officers themselves at that moment (he actually filmed a cop racing to get into his squad car at that moment!), so grossly disproves the later Postal/Brewer narrative so crucial to the Warren Commission, I believe explains why the Reiland film was so often shown silent.
What Ron Reiland said he was told by the DPD themselves as to why they went to the Texas Theater was an insurmountable challenge to the Commission. The FBI and the WC made sure Reiland’s voice was not publicized.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
That's nonsense. Nothing that Ron Reiland said in his narration of his news film disproves the Postal/Brewer narrative. The part about the "shotgun" was merely one of several mistakes that Reiland made while he was narrating his film on WFAA-TV on the afternoon of 11/22/63.
You're placing way too much emphasis—and assumed spot-on accuracy—on Ron Reiland's narration of the film. As I said, Reiland got several things wrong when he narrated that film (see the video below). And when he was saying certain things about the police, the chronology at any particular moment wasn't necessarily "in sync" with the film that WFAA was showing to viewers on their television screens. Reiland's narration can't be "synced up" in such a precise manner, which seems to be what you are trying to do.
Let me also add another section of Johnny Brewer's Warren Commission testimony to this discussion (relating to whether Mrs. Postal sold Lee Oswald a movie ticket or not):
DAVID BELIN -- If he had purchased a ticket, would you have seen him purchasing the ticket from where you were standing or walking?
JOHNNY BREWER -- I could have seen him, yes; standing in front of the box office.
MR. BELIN -- Then did you know when you saw him walk in and when you walked up to Julia Postal that he had not bought a ticket?
MR. BREWER -- I knew that he hadn't.
MR. BELIN -- Why did you ask Julia Postal whether he had or hadn't?
MR. BREWER -- I don't know.
MR. BELIN -- You just asked her?
MR. BREWER -- Just asked her whether he had bought or she had seen him go in.
MR. BELIN -- Did she say whether she had seen him, or don't you remember?
MR. BREWER -- She said she couldn't remember a man of that description going in.
--------------
Let me emphasize that last remark made by Brewer---
"She said she couldn't remember a man of that description going in."
It stands to reason, therefore, that Johnny Brewer must have provided Julia Postal with a description of the man before Julia called the police.
REPLAY....
PAUL JOLLIFFE SAID:
Julia Postal’s call to the DPD (for which no transcript or tape exists, now or then)...
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I wouldn't expect any tape recording or transcript to exist of that particular telephone call. Why would there be such a tape or transcript of a citizen's call to the Dallas Police Department in 1963? This was prior to the "911" emergency service being implemented around the country. So I doubt that an ordinary call to the DPD switchboard would be recorded in any fashion in the year 1963. If you have information to the contrary, please provide it.
RICH POPE SAID:
It's funny that in the original APB, the gun identified was a 30-30. Then they find a Mauser in the TSBD, which morphs into a Carcano. And finally, LHO is carrying a shotgun into the Texas Theatre. I mean, you can't make this stuff up! It's like something out of a cartoon.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Which, of course, should make all conspiracy theorists realize one thing for sure:
Innocent mistakes WERE made by the police when describing what kind of gun was found in the TSBD.
Ergo, when the dust settled and the mistakes in rifle identification are eliminated from the mix, it's reasonable and sensible to arrive at the following conclusion....
No Mauser was found in the building at all, and the only rifle that was found was an Italian Mannlicher-Carcano.
Or do some CTers really believe that all of the various types of rifles that were being reported in the news on Day 1 were actually found in the Depository --- from a Mauser...to a Carcano...to a 30-30 Winchester...to a Japanese-made rifle...to an Argentine gun...to a British Enfield...etc.?
Since it's obvious that most of those descriptions cannot possibly be accurate ones, then why do so many conspiracy theorists continue to cling to the "Mauser" theory as if that description couldn't possibly have been a mistake as well? (And, yes, I know that Seymour Weitzman used the more exacting term "7.65 Mauser" in his affidavit, but we also know that Weitzman did not touch or hold that rifle in his own hands, and he only saw it from some distance away.)
David Von Pein
February 2-8, 2019 [This forum link is no longer available.]
