STEVE THOMAS SAID:
He [Lee Harvey Oswald] gave all his money to Marina remember?
MARK KNIGHT SAID:
So how did he pay the cab driver?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
And the bus ride? And the Coke?
MARK KNIGHT SAID:
Exactly.
Wow. You and I are in agreement once more.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
But in order to be totally fair to Mr. Steve Thomas with regard to his previous post when he said that Lee Oswald "gave all his money to Marina", perhaps we should cut Steve some slack and assume that Steve probably wasn't talking about every last coin that Lee had in his pants pockets on 11/22/63. Steve could have just been referring to "folding" currency. But, of course, even if that's what he was referring to, he would still be wrong, because Oswald did not leave behind all of his paper money on the dresser at Ruth Paine's house on November 22nd either. He still had $13 on him at the time of his arrest.
Speaking of the topic of "Oswald's Cash On Hand On 11/22/63"....
I've always noticed that the Warren Commission overlooked one very small purchase that Lee Oswald made on Nov. 22 --- the Coke purchase from the Depository lunchroom. The WC, in its very detailed anaylsis of Oswald's finances in Appendix XIV of the Warren Report, failed to mention anything about Oswald's probable Coca-Cola purchase on 11/22/63.
It's possible, however, that Oswald didn't actually purchase the Coke at all. He could have possibly grabbed an open Coke bottle off of one of the tables inside the lunchroom just after his encounter with Marrion Baker and Roy Truly. But, IMO, the thing that suggests that Oswald probably did buy the Coke is the fact that there is testimony from Mrs. Robert Reid which indicates the Coke she saw Oswald holding was a "full" bottle of Coke [see 3 H 278], versus it being a "used" bottle left on a table by someone else.
So, if Oswald did, in fact, buy the Coca-Cola with his own money on November 22, it means that Lee left the Paine house that morning with a total of $15.20 in his pockets. His expenditures on November 22nd would have included the Coke (10 cents), the short bus ride on Cecil McWatters' bus (23 cents), and the ride to Oak Cliff in William Whaley's taxicab ($1.00, including the 5-cent tip).
Some of my miscellanous thoughts [originally posted in 2013]....
Lee Harvey Oswald leaving behind the money and his ring doesn't PROVE he shot the President, of course. But the TOTALITY of unusual things he did on November 21st and 22nd certainly indicate that Friday, November 22, 1963, was not just an ordinary regular work day for Lee Harvey Oswald.
For example:
1.) Visiting his wife at Ruth Paine's house on a THURSDAY instead of his normal FRIDAY.
2.) Leaving Marina $170 and his wedding ring (in tandem) -- which left only approximately $15 in Lee's pockets when he left the Paine house on November 22 (and, remember, per Buell Wesley Frazier, Lee was not planning on returning to Irving on Friday night).
3.) Telling Marina to "take as much money as I [Marina] needed and to buy everything", which was highly unusual for the penny-pinching Mr. Oswald, according to his wife.
4.) Telling co-worker Buell Wesley Frazier he was going to Irving to get some curtain rods at the Paine house, which we know was a lie (based on the preponderance of evidence and testimony that proves it was a lie).
5.) Taking a large paper package into work with him on Nov. 22.
6.) Taking no lunch to work on Nov. 22, which was very unusual (per Buell Frazier's testimony).
And when we add in the evidence of Oswald's guilt that was discovered AFTER the assassination, then what do all of these things suggest--in combination with one another? Do they suggest the actions of an innocent patsy? Or do they suggest the actions of a person who had a one-man plan to murder the President?
Mr. Spence, your witness.
RON BULMAN SAID:
Suggest David? OMG you're speculating? You have a Theory? It suggests to me that maybe Oswald knew something about a operation he had been told about, not necessarily an assassination, that he had a maybe minor role in. And a further role in the aftermath of it? His actions at the Texas Theater suggest he was looking for a contact. A way out of Dallas, Texas, the country? Maybe he expected further funding from another source in that respect.
Then again, did he still wear his ring on a regular basis? He and Marina were separated. Maybe he decided, you won't even talk to me anymore, I'm tired of it, bye. On the other hand was he trying to provide for his family by leaving the $170? The 13.87 left out of the 15.20 he kept was more than enough for a poor guy to get by for a week in 63, eating cheese sandwiches in the lunchroom. The 23 cent bus fare and $1 taxi ride were unexpected expenses. A coke cost a dime. If the normally poor tightwad Oswald planned on killing the president, wouldn't he keep the full $185.20 for his unplanned unknown method of getaway?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
It's interesting how conspiracists can conveniently turn all the evidence around into a theory that "maybe Oswald knew something about a operation he had been told about, not necessarily an assassination, that he had a maybe minor role in" [Ron Bulman quote].
OSWALD brings the rifle into the TSBD (despite the protests of CTers who deny this fact).
OSWALD lies to Buell Frazier (and the police) about the "curtain rods" that LHO says were in the package.
OSWALD has no believable (or provable) alibi for 12:30 PM on 11/22.
OSWALD'S prints are all over the Sniper's Nest (the location of JFK's killer).
OSWALD shoots and kills J.D. Tippit shortly after leaving the TSBD.
OSWALD did numerous "odd" and "out of the ordinary" things on both November 21st and 22nd.
And yet CTers will come up with every excuse in the book in order to defend Lee Oswald for TWO murders. I can only wonder WHY they continue to do this, given the evidence that unquestionably ALL LEADS TO ONE MAN named Oswald. That might be the biggest "mystery" in this whole case. And to think ALL the evidence against Oswald is phony or manufactured----please----that's a sign of sheer desperation utilized by conspiracy theorists like Barry Scheck, Johnnie Cochran, and F. Lee Bailey --- i.e., defense attorneys who have no choice but to argue such wholesale fakery in order for their client to have even a slim chance of being exonerated.
RON BULMAN SAID:
Yes, David, what you quote which I said is speculation. Not totally unreasonable taken in the full context of what I stated.
You didn't address the funding issue you were originally trying to. Why didn't he take the money and run, after the assassination, if he was a lone nut? Why go to the Texas Theater and keep changing seats like he was looking for somebody?
Did he expect a ride, and funds? Was he led into a trap? To become a Patsy?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I really don't think Lee Oswald thought---deep down---that he would actually have a chance to use his Mannlicher-Carcano on the President that day. Yes, he took his rifle to work with the hope in his mind of somehow being able to secrete himself somewhere within the Depository at the precise moment when Kennedy drove past the building. But he probably also realized as he was driving to work that morning with Buell Frazier that the odds of being able to successfully conceal himself from the view of everyone else in the building (i.e., being able to have an entire warehouse floor of the TSBD all to himself at just exactly the appropriate minutes before, during, and just after the President drove by the building) were very small odds indeed.
But, as Oswald's incredible luck would have it (and even though he picked a floor--the sixth--that had MORE than the usual number of employees working on it throughout the entire morning that day, due to the floor-laying project that was occurring on that floor), Lee had the good fortune of having the entire sixth floor all to himself at precisely the time he desperately needed to have it all to himself---between 12:20 and 12:31 PM.
It's always been my opinion that if Bonnie Ray Williams had decided to stay on the sixth floor, instead of moving down to the 5th floor at about 12:20, then JFK would not have been shot at all....because (IMO) Oswald wouldn't risk firing at the President if he knew for certain that somebody else was on that same sixth floor just a few feet away.
And if somehow he was able to pull off the shooting in total secrecy (which he was), I doubt if Lee thought he would live very long beyond 12:30. Hence, I don't think he cared too much about having a lot of money on him when he departed Ruth Paine's house on November 22.*
* Yes, I know that that last part about Lee thinking he wouldn't be long for this world if he shot the President is likely to be considered inconsistent with the portion of my theory which has Oswald not taking the risk of shooting if Bonnie Ray remained on the sixth floor. CTers can fire back with:
But, David, if he didn't think he'd get away alive, then why would he care if anyone else was up there with him to finger him for the crime?
Fair point (if someone wants to make it). But I think it's quite clear that Oswald did have a desire to continue living beyond 11/22/63. That fact is very clear to me when looking at Oswald's actions after 12:30 PM on November 22 --- e.g., fleeing the building within minutes of the assassination, taking a cab to get back to his roominghouse (a very out-of-the-ordinary mode of transportation for Oswald), arming himself with a pistol and at least 15 rounds of ammunition within 30 minutes of JFK being shot, and then committing a second murder a few minutes later when he encountered Officer Tippit.
Having a desire to survive the aftermath of the assassination, vs. thinking he will survive, are two different things entirely. I would guess that Lee Harvey Oswald was probably very surprised that he was afforded the ideal opportunity to shoot at President Kennedy from a totally vacant sixth floor of his workplace and still live to see another sunrise.
IMHO.
YMMV.
David Von Pein
May 6-7, 2018
