DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
CE573 [the "General Walker bullet"] looks just like a Carcano bullet. Anybody can tell that just by glancing at a picture of CE573:
I've always been surprised that no firearms expert could link it to Rifle C2766, because it sure looks like it's got plenty of undamaged surface area to make a positive identification. But evidently not.
GIL JESUS SAID:
No one's saying that CE 573 isn't a MC bullet. I'm suggesting that based on the observations of General Walker, CE 573 is not the bullet they found. It's substituted evidence. Can't any of you nuts read?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
So, does this mean you think CE573 IS a bullet fired from Oswald's Carcano? Or do you think the evil cops used a different Carcano to create the phony Walker bullet?
BTW, who placed that fake bullet in the record?
And another question:
If Oswald didn't shoot at Walker, then why did LHO write out this note for Marina, indicating he might be killed or taken into custody? Or is that note a fraud too?
You see, it isn't JUST the Walker bullet that ties Lee Harvey Oswald to that shooting. There are other things too. Weren't the cops lucky that their patsy confessed to the shooting you say he never committed?
GIL JESUS SAID:
Oswald confessed to shooting at Walker? Funny I can't find that in the report.
Citation?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
He confessed to Marina.
So, unless Marina was a bald-faced liar in December 1963 (in a Secret Service report; CE1789), and again in February 1964 (in her Warren Commission testimony), and again in 1978 (in her HSCA testimony), and again in November 2000 (in an interview with Vincent Bugliosi), then Oswald confessed to shooting at General Walker. Period.
WALT CAKEBREAD SAID:
HUH!??? What the hell are you babbling about? Lee Oswald was already decaying and pushing up daisies when the authorities learned that he had been involved in the shooting at Walker's house in April of 63.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Yes, of course.
But when I said this yesterday....
"Weren't the cops lucky that their patsy confessed to the shooting you say he never committed?"
....I was obviously talking about the fact that Marina Oswald later told the authorities and the Warren Commission that LHO had, in effect, "confessed" to shooting at Walker.
In fact, the way things came to the attention of the police makes it much LESS likely that anyone was "setting up" Oswald for ANY murders or murder attempts in 1963.
Why?
Because the cops didn't know about Oswald's involvement in the Walker shooting until AFTER OSWALD WAS DEAD. The authorities had no idea that Lee Oswald was involved in the Walker incident until many days after 11/22/63.
Therefore, if the cops were really framing Oswald for both the JFK and Tippit murders on November 22, 23, and 24, 1963 (as many conspiracy theorists believe), then the Dallas Police Department sure got a big break when they found out, many days later, that the man they were in the process of framing for the Kennedy and Tippit murders had, in fact, really tried to kill another political figure seven months earlier.
I think even most CTers will admit that a made-to-order patsy like that doesn't fall into your lap every day of the week. How lucky can a patsy-framer possibly get?!
Or, given the above-mentioned circumstances, a better question would be:
How on Earth can anyone in their right mind truly believe that the Dallas Police and the FBI were trying to frame Lee Oswald for the murders of JFK and J.D. Tippit?
The conspiracy theorists love to sidestep (or just totally ignore) Oswald's involvement in the Walker shooting. Because if they don't ignore it or distort it, then the CTers will have to admit that the man they think never fired a single shot at anyone on November 22, 1963, HAD MURDER RUNNING THROUGH HIS VEINS just seven months before President Kennedy was assassinated. And that is something that conspiracy theorists simply do not want to admit.
I think the following passage from the Warren Commission Report is rather interesting too. This passage is referring to the evidence that Lee Oswald left behind after he shot at General Walker in April 1963, but it also parallels Oswald's actions and the evidence he left behind after he shot JFK and Officer Tippit in November:
"Marina Oswald's testimony indicates that her husband was not particularly concerned about his continued possession of the most incriminating sort of evidence." -- Warren Report; Page 405
I also want to point out the following section of testimony from Marina Oswald. Marina told the Warren Commission this:
"He only told me that he had shot at General Walker."
-- Marina Oswald (1 H 16)
WALT CAKEBREAD SAID:
They [the Dallas Police] COULD have asked him [Lee Oswald] about his involvement in the Walker shooting (and we don't know that they didn't) on the evening of 11/22/63 because "someone" (Jack Ruby?) in the crowd called out to Chief Jesse Curry...."Chief, is this connected to the shooting at general Walker back in April?". ("THIS" was referring to the murders of JFK and JD Tippit.)
Any thinking person would immediately ask themselves....Who was this man who attempted to tie Oswald to the Walker incident and the assassination of JFK? How would anybody know that Oswald was involved in the Walker incident?? That case was unsolved and there wasn't a hint that Oswald had been involved and yet some "reporter" tried to tie the two crimes together.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Yes, a reporter did, indeed, ask Chief Jesse Curry if JFK's murder had any connection to the Walker shooting. The reporter asked Curry that question on 11/23/63, however, not on the 22nd. Curry's answer was: "I do not know" (go to 6:13 in the video below).
I, too, thought it was rather interesting when I first heard that clip of the reporter asking about any Walker tie-in. But to suggest that the reporter was really Jack Ruby, and that Ruby was attempting to frame Oswald in some way by bringing up the Walker incident during a press conference with Chief Curry, is simply more naked and unprovable speculation on the part of CTers.
Many people in Dallas knew about the unsolved Walker shooting. So it certainly isn't beyond imagination to think that a crackerjack reporter might have tied the two things together as of November 23rd. And that, in fact, is precisely what did occur -- the reporter made a good guess and tied the Walker shooting to the JFK assassination. Simple as that. And, furthermore, his guess on 11/23/63 was absolutely correct.
ADDENDUM:
Here are some related excerpts from Vincent Bugliosi's book concerning Lee Harvey Oswald, Marina Oswald, and the attempted murder of General Edwin Walker:
"Since we know that Oswald attempted to murder General Walker because he confessed to his own wife that he did, nothing further is required to make the point. But in addition to his letter of instructions to Marina, which has survived, and has been confirmed to be in Oswald's handwriting, as well as the photos Oswald took of Walker's residence, there is some other independent evidence, though not conclusive by itself, connecting Oswald to the attempted murder of Walker.
The Dallas police took the slug found at the Walker residence to the Dallas City-County Investigation Laboratory at Parkland Hospital on April 25, 1963, to see if lab technicians could determine the type of gun from which it was fired. Within a few days the lab reported back that it could not do so "because of the battered condition of the bullet."
On November 30, 1963, the FBI, thinking there possibly could be a connection between the Kennedy assassination and the Walker shooting, requested the bullet from the Dallas Police Department for examination, and the local office of the FBI sent the slug by registered mail to the FBI lab in Washington, D.C., on December 2, 1963.
Robert Frazier, the FBI firearms expert, testified before the Warren Commission that because of the mutilated condition of the Walker bullet, he was "unable to reach a conclusion" as to whether or not the bullet was fired from Oswald's Carcano rifle, the one he determined was the weapon that killed President Kennedy. However, he said that "the general rifling characteristics of the rifle 139 [Commission Exhibit No. 139, Oswald's Carcano] are of the same type as those found on the bullet, [Commission] Exhibit [No.] 573 [Walker slug]," and therefore, at least on this basis, "the bullet could have been fired from the rifle."
The general rifling characteristics on the Walker bullet and the barrel of the Carcano were "four lands and grooves" with a "right" twist. Frazier said the Walker bullet was fired from a Mannlicher-Carcano rifle or one with similar barrel characteristics. Frazier also said the "remaining physical characteristics of this bullet, 573, are the same as Western [Cartridge Company] 6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano bullets...made for this rifle, 139."
When Dr. Vincent Guinn made his neutron activation analysis of the bullet for the HSCA, he determined that it was "extremely likely" that the Walker bullet was a Mannlicher-Carcano bullet manufactured by the Western Cartridge Company, the same as the ammunition used in the Kennedy assassination (1 HSCA 502, HSCA testimony of Dr. Guinn on September 8, 1978).
The Dallas Police Department's "General Offense Report" on April 10, 1963, its first report on the Walker shooting, described the bullet as a "steel-jacketed bullet" (CE 2001, 24 H 39), whereas the 6.5-millimeter Mannlicher-Carcano bullets were copper-jacketed. Frazier told the Warren Commission that "some individuals commonly refer to rifle bullets as steel-jacketed bullets, when they actually in fact just have a copper alloy jacket" (3 H 439).
Although the bullet was too damaged to find the essential "microscopic characteristics" (markings) to match up with the barrel of Oswald's Carcano that would enable Frazier to connect the Walker bullet to the Carcano to the exclusion of all other weapons, importantly, Frazier said he found NO microscopic characteristics on the bullet that would indicate it was NOT fired from the Carcano." -- Vincent Bugliosi; Pages 694-695 of "Reclaiming History"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"When she [Marina Oswald] insisted on Oswald's innocence [during a personal interview that Vincent Bugliosi had with Marina on November 30, 2000], suggesting he would never do such a murderous act, I reminded her that he had, in fact, attempted to murder Major General Edwin Walker, and she readily admitted he had, telling me she knew this because "Lee told me he did." But she hastened to add that the president was different because "Lee liked Kennedy." And Jack Duffy, who has studied the assassination for years and leans toward the conspiracy theory, asked Marina if she had taken "the backyard photos" of Oswald holding the Carcano rifle. "Yes," she answered evenly, "I did." "That settles that issue," Duffy said." -- Vincent Bugliosi; Page 1487 of "Reclaiming History"
WALT CAKEBREAD SAID:
General Walker was sweating his balls off. He was scared to death that Oswald was going to reveal that he and Walker and [George] De Morhenschildt [sic] had conspired and plotted a hoax that would have been beneficial to Walker in his quest for publicity, and beneficial to Oswald by making him appear to be a radical communist revolutionary who had tried to kill one of Castro's most vocal foes. Walker wanted to nail Oswald's coffin shut just as soon as possible.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
~chuckle~
Can it get any goofier than this, folks? I ask you.
And, yes, it's obvious that the reporter just guessed when he asked Curry about any potential tie-in between the events of 11/22 and the Walker shooting in April. To believe that it was anything but a guess and speculation on the reporter's part would be to engage in the kind of absurdly over-the-top speculation that Walt has engaged in above concerning a wholly unsupportable theory that has Edwin Walker knowing Lee Oswald and participating in some silly charade in April '63 which had Oswald only PRETENDING to want to kill Walker.
ADDENDUM:
FWIW, here are some excerpts from the 1964 Warren Commission testimony of Major General Edwin A. Walker (re: George DeMohrenschildt):
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any other information that you think the
Commission ought to have that we haven't already talked about?
General WALKER. Yes. I think the Commission should look into George
DeMohrenschildt, if it hasn't.
Mr. LIEBELER. What do you know about Mr. DeMohrenschildt?
General WALKER. I know that my information indicates that he lived
next door to the professor that was supposed to have burned up.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any information that would connect
DeMohrenschildt to the assassination of President Kennedy in any way?
General WALKER. I have the information the paper had that connected
him with the Oswalds.
Mr. LIEBELER. Yes?
General WALKER. Of course, it is common knowledge that DeMohrenschildt
was associated with Oswald now.
Mr. LIEBELER. Other than that, do you have any information to indicate
that DeMohrenschildt was involved in any way with the assassination of
President Kennedy?
General WALKER. Not directly.
General [Clyde J.] WATTS. Do you have any indirect evidence?
General WALKER. I am tired of them blaming the rightwing, and I have
had enough of this, and it is about time that the Commission cleared
the city of Dallas.
Mr. LIEBELER. Well, now, do you have any indirect indication or
evidence that would associate DeMohrenschildt with the assassination
of President Kennedy in any way?
General WALKER. I think it is very important that DeMohrenschildt knew
Oswald. I think it is very interesting. My information is that
DeMohrenschildt went to Haiti. I have nothing further to add.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, is there anything else that you think the
Commission ought to know that we have not already mentioned here this
evening? It is now 7:15.
General WALKER. Where am I at?
Mr. LIEBELER. I didn't mean to suggest--I just wanted to let the
record show we are both working very hard.
General WALKER. I will stay here all night.
Mr. LIEBELER. If you have anything else that you think the Commission
should know or that you consider to be of material importance, I want
you to say so, General Walker, because...I hope you realize that the
Commission is trying to do the best job that it can with the situation,
and that if you can be of help to us, or if anybody else could be of help
to us, we want your help.
General WALKER. That is my approach to the problem. We certainly want
the truth. We want the truth to come out.
GIL JESUS SAID:
Marina lied to everybody.
The FBI, the SS and the WC.
Read the documents and testimony.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
And you think she was still lying in November of 2000 when she said the things she said to Vince Bugliosi and Jack Duffy?
E.G. (paraphrased),
"I took the backyard photos"; and "Lee told me he shot at Walker."
Why would she still be lying about those things 37 years later? You can't possibly use the worn-out "deportation" excuse in the year 2000.
David Von Pein
January 10-13, 2012
