B.A. COPELAND SAID:
David, given [author John] Armstrong's proving the broken chain of custody of the rifle, from order to shipment, you honestly believe somehow it still ended up with LHO?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Do you believe this document below is really a fake document? Because if you don't, then Klein's positively shipped Rifle C2766 to Oswald/"Hidell" on 3/20/63 (regardless of the fact Oswald had actually ordered from a coupon advertising a 36-inch gun)....
Waldman No. 7 pictured above sinks every conspiracist who has ever uttered these words:
"Lee Harvey Oswald never ordered any rifle from Klein's and was never shipped any rifle by Klein's."
DAVID JOSEPHS SAID:
Funny thing....
The name Lee Harvey Oswald does not appear on this order [Waldman #7].
A C20-T750, a 36" carbine with a scope did not exist at Klein's. That order was never shipped.
Where is the evidence that the $1.50 in postage was ever sent in?
What happened to the C2766 rifle Feldscott [sic] says was shipped to Klein's in June 1962 right after the ads for a C20-T750 had been running a couple of months and they needed rifles to fulfill C20-T750 orders thru Feb 1963?
Why is there no federal banking stamp on the back of the MO?
Why was it found in VA and not KS?
How, if there is no specific evidence of what Rupp took out of Harborside to send to Klein's, can you connect a rifle from Rupp thru Klein's and to Oswald when all the orders from that time period are gone?
Why is there no proof that Oswald or Hidell ever got the rifle from the Post Office or that it ever arrived at a post office?
Why won't the FBI or Klein's let us see another order for C20-T750 to see what was shipped?
Why has not a single person EVER come forward claiming to have ordered a C20-T750 36" scoped carbine and say they got the same rifle Oswald used? That would be pretty exciting and there should be tens if not a hundred of these floating around...?
What about the rest of the inventory from that shipment... did the FBI ever check the remaining stock to see if the other 99 rifles were also 40" FC rifles and not TS and/or where they were shipped?
When the rifle is supposedly in New Orleans on Sept 23, 1963 with the rest of the Oswald belongings and Ruth takes Marina and children back to Irving, they see the loading and unloading of her car and repeatedly tells us that she does not see that rifle until shown to her at the DPD. Did he take it with him to Mexico? To Odio? Was it ever seen at the Paine house? No.
So what happened to it? How did it get from Magazine [Street in New Orleans] to Irving?
When he arrived at the TSBD - where do you say he put the rifle to retrieve it later?
You might want to read thru this. If he had a plan, THIS is the plan he had to follow.
When did he have time to disassemble the rifle?
Make the paper bag?
Get the bag home - (he only asks Wesley [Frazier] for a ride Thursday afternoon).
Get the rifle into the bag before going to sleep at 9pm?
Get the rifle and bag in the morning?
Get a 34" piece of rifle into a 27" bag with clip, bullets, and trigger mechanism - and still not leave a trace inside said bag?
Mr. Pein [sic], your attempts at offering WCR evidence and WCR conclusions with the same tired old fraudulent evidence from 50 years ago is terribly lame for someone with your skills.
Fashion a paper as I did at that link that illustrates the PLAN your Lone Nut had to employ to accomplish this amazing feat. PROVE he did it, since he is INNOCENT until proven guilty.
No one including you have been able to offer a convincing argument supported by facts which is not destroyed just by looking at the Evidence of the Conspiracy left behind.
Posting a single doc [Waldman #7] and proclaiming King of the Hill is premature Dave... even you can follow that. Post an argument that isn't so easily pulled apart... you have all the evidence - same as I do...
If you're going to waste our time and offer an argument - can you at least make it worth looking at?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Therefore, David Josephs, you think KLEIN'S SPORTING GOODS of Chicago, Illinois, played a large part in the "plot" to frame Lee Oswald. Is that correct?
You do realize how goofy that accusation is, don't you David?
And why would anybody think it strange that the name "Lee Harvey Oswald" doesn't appear on Waldman 7 when Oswald used his alias Hidell to order the rifle? Should Klein's have shipped the gun to "Oswald" even though the name on the order form said "Hidell"?
Video concerning Klein's and the rifle:
B.A. COPELAND SAID ALL THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
But, B.A., do you really think Klein's is a co-conspirator in this thing? Really?
If so....for what possible purpose? Coerced by the FBI to do so?
Or don't you consider that a valid question for me to ask?
JON G. TIDD SAID:
Questions about the order form:
[1] Were such blank forms intended to be filled out, at least in part, by the purchaser?
[2][a] Was the form in question, Waldman 7, filled out in part by an individual employed by Klein's? [b] If so, what part(s)?
[3] If the answer to [2][a] is yes, who was that individual, and was he or she interviewed by the Warren Commission?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Jon,
Waldman #7 is an internal Klein's form. The customer never sees that form at all. It's generated by Klein's after they receive the order form in the mail from the customer.
From 7 H 366...
DAVID BELIN -- "Now, I'm going to hand you what has been marked as Waldman Deposition Exhibit No. 7 and ask you to state if you know what this is."
WILLIAM J. WALDMAN -- "This is a copy made from our microfilm reader-printer of an order received by Klein's from a Mr. A. Hidell, Post Office Box No. 2915, in Dallas, Texas. I want to clarify that this is not the order, itself, received from Mr. Hidell, but it's a form created by us internally from an order received from Mr. Hidell on a small coupon taken from an advertisement of ours in a magazine."
~~~~~~~~~
I do wonder why William Waldman refers to Hidell as "Mister"? The order coupon that Oswald mailed to Klein's says simply "A. Hidell", which could be a female ordering the gun for all Klein's knew at the time in March 1963. (Although I suppose it might be a bit unusual for a woman to be ordering firearms from Klein's Sporting Goods; but it certainly could happen.)
Obviously, though, Mr. Waldman would have later become aware that "A. Hidell" was, in fact, Lee Harvey Oswald, who was, of course, a "Mister". But I just wanted to put that out there before a conspiracist jumps all over Waldman for improperly addressing Hidell as "Mr. A. Hidell".
Perhaps some CTers think that the "Mister" indicates William Waldman had advanced knowledge of who "Hidell" was prior to Waldman's Warren Commission session and, therefore, Waldman was part of the alleged "plot" to frame "Mr. Hidell". I've never heard that theory before---but I wouldn't be at all surprised if it resides in some CTer's mind right now.
IN ANOTHER DISCUSSION, DAVID JOSEPHS SAID:
An open letter to Gary Mack and DVP:
Are you going to now try and say that the HIDELL ORDER was the only one in which a rifle serial # and VC # were written? That Klein's would not keep track of who bought what, when and where? As they did on the HIDELL ORDER?
Are you claiming that you've NEVER SEEN ANOTHER KLEIN'S order…EVER?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Why on Earth would the FBI care about other orders in the Klein's files other than the paperwork connected with the purchase of one particular rifle with the serial number C2766 on it (which was purchased by Oswald, of course)?
That's the only gun purchase the FBI was looking for -- the one with C2766 attached to it. And that's because they knew that the JFK murder weapon was a gun with "C2766" on it. Any other Klein's order was useless and immaterial to the FBI's investigation. Isn't this obvious?
You, David Josephs, are merely concentrating on all the wrong things (again), in order to make Oswald blameless.
Of course there were many other order forms in the Klein's files that looked similar to Waldman #7. But none of those other orders had the serial number "C2766" written on them, and therefore none of those many other Klein's orders had any bearing whatsoever on the JFK murder case.
So why in the world would those other forms for non-Oswald gun purchases be propped up in any FBI report, or the Warren Report, or anyplace else (outside a forum like this one [The Education Forum], which is filled with people who look for excuses 24/7 to exonerate a guilty double-murderer)?
David Von Pein
August 6, 2012
April 27-28, 2015
