Part 1381 of my "JFK Assassination Arguments" series includes a variety of my posts and comments covering the period of October 1—31, 2024. To read the entire forum discussion from which my own comments have been extracted, click on the "Full Discussion" logo at the bottom of each individual segment.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Here's an informative 2015 interview with author/researcher Dale K. Myers:
DAVID VON PEIN ALSO SAID:
High-quality version of Lee Harvey Oswald's brief television interview in New Orleans on August 21, 1963, including a few bonus video clips:
Also See:
David Von Pein
October 1, 2024
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DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
A plug for Fred Litwin's new 2024 book, "A Heritage Of Nonsense":
And in addition to Fred Litwin's excellent books and his website full of very detailed dismantling of many of Jim Garrison's crackpot ideas, another good source for debunking Garrison's nonsense is, of course, Vincent Bugliosi's now-17-year-old masterpiece "Reclaiming History", including this excerpt below (culled from Page 1361 of Bugliosi's book):
JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Beautiful! Six nice disjointed DiEugenio rants in a row. (That might be a new record.)
Must be a full moon tonight. That usually causes a lot of tedious howling in the night.
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JOSEPH McBRIDE SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Maybe you [Joseph McBride] should try actually clicking on (and reading) some of the many many links that Fred has provided to back up his "It's not true" assertions.
When a person backs up what he says with documented information (as Fred Litwin has done time and time again over the last several years, via links to his blog articles), shouldn't that make even a hardened conspiracy believer sit up and take at least a little bit of notice?
P.S. -- And anyone who thinks Mr. Litwin is not a "genuine researcher" should probably go have his or her head examined. (IMO.)
PAT SPEER SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
[Regarding the last paragraph of Pat Speer's post linked above....]
Geez Louise! Isn't the answer blatantly obvious?!!
There's absolutely no comparison to be made between those three men. One of the men you mentioned (Jim Garrison) had no solid evidence whatsoever against the man he put on trial for conspiracy to commit murder. While the other two men (Arlen Specter and David Belin) had many items of evidence (plus Oswald's very own highly incriminating actions and movements on 11/21 and 11/22/63) linking Lee Oswald to the two murders he committed in Dallas.
Such an obviously cockeyed comparison is like trying to compare Marvelous Marv Throneberry with Lou Gehrig. It's absurd on its face.
PAT SPEER SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Which is deplorable and reprehensible activity being engaged in by a U.S. District Attorney. And yet many JFKA conspiracy theorists just love to prop up Garrison as a "hero" of some sort. I can't tell you how many comments I've had on my JFK YouTube channel from people who love to throw the sickening "Garrison was a hero" mantra in my face. I've seen it on my channel literally hundreds of times. And it makes me want to puke every time I see it.
Surely you don't condone such a slimy tactic that you just said Garrison "MAY HAVE used" in the Clay Shaw prosecution (i.e., Garrison puts Shaw on trial even though he has to know Shaw is totally innocent), do you Pat?
David Von Pein
October 1-5, 2024
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DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Below is a four-page excerpt from Vincent Bugliosi's 2007 book,
"Reclaiming History", concerning Rose Cherami:
David Von Pein
October 9, 2024
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SANDY LARSEN SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
But that's the rub. Because, to date, nobody on Planet Earth has proven that a conspiracy positively existed on 11/22/63. And it's quite arrogant (and just flat-out wrong) to suggest that a conspiracy has been proven beyond all doubt.
W. NIEDERHUT SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Is W. Niederhut now considered to be the be-all and end-all when it comes to the JFK Assassination debate? Or is it okay for somebody to point out the fact that every single thing that Lee Harvey Oswald did on 11/22/63 could have been accomplished by Oswald and Oswald alone --- and was accomplished by him alone, IMO.
No conspiracy (or cover-up) has ever been necessary in an effort to explain
all of this evidence that exists in the JFK and J.D. Tippit murder cases (and
in Jack Ruby's murder of Oswald as well).
PAT SPEER SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
And even if what Pat Speer just said in his post above is true (i.e., that the CIA and Lyndon Johnson's administration engaged in a public relations campaign to sell to the public the notion that Lee Oswald had acted alone in the murder of JFK) .... so what?
It would simply mean that the CIA and LBJ were engaged in a campaign to sell the actual truth of Oswald's lone guilt to the public (based, of course, on the actual evidence in the case*, all of which indicates, beyond reasonable doubt, that Oswald was indeed the lone assassin).
And I'd like to know what the heck is wrong with trying to sell the truth?
* Bracing for the inevitable "All The Evidence Against Oswald Was Of The Faked/Manufactured Variety" firestorm from CTers.
W. NIEDERHUT SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I've gone dozens of rounds with DiEugenio regarding Bugliosi [Click Here]. And, IMO, Jim is totally wrong about virtually all of his intense, non-stop criticisms of Vince (to the point where many of his anti-VB rants are just downright silly and laughable).
David Von Pein
October 9, 2024
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DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Ethel Kennedy, wife of assassinated Senator Robert F. Kennedy, passed away in Boston on October 10th, 2024. She was 96.
The Kennedy Family:
Rose Kennedy (July 22, 1890 – January 22, 1995)
Joseph P. Kennedy Sr. (September 6, 1888 – November 18, 1969)
Joseph P. Kennedy Jr. (July 25, 1915 – August 12, 1944)
John F. Kennedy (May 29, 1917 – November 22, 1963)
Rosemary Kennedy (September 13, 1918 – January 7, 2005)
Kathleen Kennedy (February 20, 1920 – May 13, 1948)
Eunice Kennedy Shriver (July 10, 1921 – August 11, 2009)
Patricia Kennedy Lawford (May 6, 1924 – September 17, 2006)
Robert F. Kennedy (November 20, 1925 – June 6, 1968)
Jean Kennedy Smith (February 20, 1928 – June 17, 2020)
Edward M. Kennedy (February 22, 1932 – August 25, 2009)
------------
Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis (July 28, 1929 – May 19, 1994)
Sargent Shriver (November 9, 1915 – January 18, 2011)
Ethel Kennedy (April 11, 1928 – October 10, 2024)
Joan Kennedy (Born September 2, 1936) (Still living)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/The Kennedy Family
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David Von Pein
October 10, 2024
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GREG DOUDNA SAID THIS AND THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Huh? Your TSBD exit strategy for Lee Harvey Oswald makes absolutely NO logical sense at all (let alone "excellent sense"). Because I think most reasonable people would agree that a person leaving via a BACK door tends to look MORE suspicious to anyone who might notice him than does a person who walks out the front door of an edifice (and particularly so after a major crime has just been committed in or near that edifice).
Plus: there's the fact (via the "Prayer Man is Oswald" theory) that LHO would have already been outside the building, on the front steps, when the shooting occurred. So why run the risk of getting trapped inside a building that surely Oswald knows would be sealed off by the police in a very very short period of time after the assassination? Makes zero sense to me.
Plus: Via the theory which has Oswald being the Prayer Man figure, not only does Oswald risk getting trapped in the building by police, but he then decides to go UP one floor to the SECOND floor (for some strange reason)!
So he wants to quickly get out of the building, and yet he goes back into the building and travels UP one flight to boot?! And all the while he could have just walked down the front steps and then out of Dealey Plaza within seconds of the shots being fired at the President!?
In closing this post, I feel compelled to add this final comment --- WTF??!!
GREG DOUDNA SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
So, then, in your view, Oswald didn't care at all about the fact that he might get trapped inside the building when the police sealed it off? Even though it's pretty clear from LHO's actions that day that he definitely did want to get AWAY from the TSBD Building very shortly after 12:30 PM? Is that correct, Greg?
GREG DOUDNA SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Re: Oswald's movements immediately after the assassination....
I think Oswald came down the back stairs from the sixth floor. He probably heard Baker and Truly coming up the stairs, so he quickly ducked into the lunchroom to avoid detection. Oswald then had his brief encounter with Officer Baker and was cleared as an employee by Mr. Truly.
Lee then purchased a Coke from the Coca-Cola machine [or, just maybe, he obtained his Coke in this manner], and then Oswald walked through the offices there on the second floor and went down the front stairs, which were very near the front entrance to the building.
So at this point in the chronology, I would ask: Why on Earth would Oswald have then decided it was a good idea for him to walk all the way to the back of the building so he could exit via the loading dock rear door? That makes no logical sense to me whatsoever, especially since it's my opinion that Oswald was most certainly in a very big hurry to leave the Depository building as fast as he could at that point in time (i.e., just three minutes or so after he himself, IMO, had just shot the U.S. President from the sixth floor of that building).
Re: Officer Baker, Mrs. Reid, and the "jacket"....
It's my opinion that Oswald very likely shot JFK while wearing only his white T-shirt. He likely placed his brown outer shirt on the floor or on a box during the shooting itself. He then utilized that brown shirt as a fingerprint-wiping rag as he quickly made his way from the Sniper's Nest to the staircase on the other side of the 6th floor.
And yes, I realize that LHO didn't do such a great job of wiping off all of the prints that he put on the rifle that day. But I think my shirt/prints scenario still makes a lot of sense, especially in light of the fact that fibers consistent with Oswald's brown arrest shirt were found wedged in the butt plate of the Carcano rifle. The print-wiping theory makes the most sense, IMO, in an effort to explain how those relatively fresh fibers managed to get themselves wedged into that rifle crevice. YMMV, of course.
After dumping his rifle among the book stacks near the stairs, Oswald then puts on his brown shirt as he darts down the stairs, but he leaves the shirt untucked and unbuttoned. Hence, when he's seen by Officer Baker in the lunchroom just seconds later, the untucked/unbuttoned shirt, in Baker's eyes, has the appearance of a "jacket". And I think it's safe to assume that Baker probably wasn't paying too much detailed attention to Oswald's clothing at that moment in time on 11/22/63. Ergo, Baker simply made a mistake. He incorrectly thought the open shirt was a jacket.
Mrs. Reid, in a contradiction to what Baker observed just seconds earlier, said that Oswald wasn't wearing any shirt or jacket over the T-shirt she said Oswald was wearing. So it would seem as though one of those two witnesses is incorrect on that point--either Baker or Reid.
But the observations of Mary Bledsoe on the bus a short time later (she saw Oswald wearing a brown shirt), plus the fact that Oswald was arrested while wearing a brown shirt, would seem to suggest that it was Mrs. Reid who was the person that was mistaken about whether or not Lee Oswald was wearing something over his T-shirt.
Re: Buell Frazier not noticing Oswald exit the front door....
It might seem unreasonable to some JFK researchers to suggest that so many people near the TSBD front stoop could have missed seeing Lee Oswald exit the building after the assassination, but let me also point out the fact that there weren't many witnesses who said they saw Marrion Baker dash into the Depository that day either. And we know that Baker entered through the front TSBD door within less than a minute of the shots being fired.
Plus: other than Buell Wesley Frazier's very late-in-coming (2002) observation about seeing Oswald walking down Houston Street approx. 5 to 10 minutes after the shooting (which totally contradicts what Frazier said in the last sentence of his 11/22/63 affidavit), there's not one other witness (with the possible exceptions of newsmen Pierce Allman and/or Robert MacNeil) who claimed they saw Oswald leaving the Book Depository on November 22, 1963, whether it be via the front door or the back door. And we all know he really did depart the TSBD and Dealey Plaza within minutes of the assassination. Even most dedicated conspiracy believers don't deny that provable fact.
So the "Nobody Saw Him Leave" excuse that conspiracists often use isn't really a viable excuse at all. Because everybody knows for a fact that Oswald did leave very shortly after 12:30.
More info concerning Buell Frazier and "Prayer Man"....
In early 2021, Frazier posted the following message on his Facebook page:
"To answer the question about Prayer Man: I have been looking at this all day, and I can tell you this: I 100% have no idea who that person is. I can also tell you 100% that is not Lee Harvey Oswald. First, Lee was not out there. I know that to be true. Second, for anyone who thinks Prayer Man is Lee, the individual has a much larger frame than Lee." -- Buell Wesley Frazier; March 28, 2021
Re: Hosty's "P. Parade" note....
"I don't think the words "Presidential Parade" came out of the mouth of Lee Harvey Oswald. Based on all of the official FINAL reports (from Fritz, Bookhout, Hosty, and Kelley), I think the words "P. Parade" that appear in the "new" Hosty note were probably HOSTY'S words and HOSTY'S interpretation of Oswald's "out with Bill Shelley" statement. Otherwise, we'd have a lot more reports (and notes) that had the word "Parade" in them." -- DVP; February 2019
Lots more discussion here:
Where Was Lee Harvey Oswald When JFK Was Shot?
PAT SPEER SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
And not only did Fritz, Bookhout, and Hosty do Oswald a HUGE FAVOR [if LHO had really told those men that he had been located on the steps of the TSBD at the moment of the assassination]....but Oswald HIMSELF did those men an even bigger favor when he clammed up and decided to not tell the world VIA LIVE TELEVISION that he was standing on the Depository steps when the shooting occurred.
And, keep in mind, Oswald had MULTIPLE chances to do just that while he was in police custody and to shout out to the reporters and live TV cameras: I was on the front steps when JFK was shot!
So why on Earth didn't Lee Oswald tell the world—on TV—that he was really outside the building at 12:30 PM on Nov. 22nd?
The most logical (and obvious) answer to my last question is:
Because Oswald wasn't outside the building at all when the assassination of JFK was taking place.
SANDY LARSEN SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Which is, of course, an incredible and next-to-impossible-to-believe "Let's Set Up Oswald" like-mindedness on the part of the alleged PRE-assassination plotters and the alleged POST-assassination evidence alterers. How anyone can believe such fiction is beyond me.
Related topic (which can also be applied to the things I just said above)....
What Are The Odds Of Both Of These Things Occurring In The Very Same Murder Case?
DAVID VON PEIN LATER SAID:
Another attempt at interjecting some common sense into the "Prayer Man" debate [following this initial attempt from two days ago]....
Do all of the conspiracy theorists who currently endorse the "Oswald Is Prayer Man" theory really and truly believe that Lee Harvey Oswald would have actually had a desire to go back into the TSBD Building within just seconds of the shots being fired at JFK?
The answer to the question I just asked, of course, can only be: Yes, those CTers must hold such a belief. And that's because LHO was definitely located inside the building just a minute or so after the assassination.
Next logical question for people who think Oswald was standing on the TSBD steps at 12:30:
Since we know Lee Oswald left Dealey Plaza within minutes of the shooting (indicating an obvious desire on his part to get away from the scene of the assassination very quickly after President Kennedy was shot), why would Oswald have wanted to delay his departure (i.e., "getaway") for even a few seconds by going back into a building that he likely thought could be sealed off by police at any moment?
Food for "Prayer Man" thought.
SANDY LARSEN SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
But Oswald had no way of knowing that "work was cancelled" at the time he left the building (which was at approx. 12:33 PM, give or take). Do you think Oswald, as of ca. 12:33, was already guessing (correctly) that there wouldn't be any more work done that day?
I know that last question is irrelevant to you anyway, Sandy. You think Oswald would have left for his (make-believe) theater rendezvous even if Lee didn't suspect that his work day was over.
But why run the risk of other theater patrons overhearing (or seeing) LHO and Ruth Paine (er, uh, I mean the phantom person you say was Lee's "handler", or the "someone" you think the "handler" told LHO to meet at the Texas Theater)?
Wouldn't a better and safer "rendezvous" be for the handler (or the unknown "someone") to simply pick up Oswald on some Dallas side street (or alley) and then the two of them sit and talk, in private, in the handler's 1955 station wagon (er, uh, I mean the handler's vehicle---whatever model car it was)?
Don't tell me the "someone" that Oswald was supposed to meet in the theater had the same motor vehicle impairment that Lee Oswald also had on 11/22/63?! --- I.E., no driver's license and no car?! 😁
SANDY LARSEN SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Bill Shelley most certainly did not tell Oswald that work was finished for the day.
The "Shelley" references we find in James Bookhout's 11/22/63 FBI report are, of course, just a sample of the many lies that Oswald told the authorities after LHO was arrested. Shelley confirmed that the last time he saw Oswald on Nov. 22 was prior to 12 Noon [7 H 390].
So, is Shelley more believable on this point? Or is Lee Oswald the one who is telling the truth? (I think the answer is obvious.)
GREG DOUDNA SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Greg,
All of the things you mentioned above are only possible because you've decided (on your own) that the fuzzy and indistinct images of Prayer Man in the Darnell Film are positively images of Lee Harvey Oswald. You made that bold declaration on Oct. 12, 2024, at 10:23 PM (EDT) when you made this highly-dubious claim at The Education Forum:
"There is enough to make the identification. Prayer Man was Oswald, beyond reasonable doubt." -- G. Doudna
But without LHO being Prayer Person, we can pretty much know that Oswald could not possibly have heard William H. Shelley make any statements to anyone outside the building at around 12:30 to 12:32 PM on 11/22, because LHO was not outside the building to hear any such remarks by Shelley (even if Shelley did make them, which he did not, according to Shelley's own Warren Commission testimony).
Therefore, it's reasonable to conclude that Oswald was simply lying to Fritz/Bookhout/Hosty regarding all of the things he said about Bill Shelley.
Footnote....
I suppose it's possible, however, for a conspiracy believer (or, for that matter, even a Lone Assassin believer) to postulate the idea that as Oswald was leaving the TSBD Building at around 12:33 PM, he inadvertently heard Shelley say something to someone (if we discount the idea that Shelley had already left the area of the TSBD's front entrance by that time; but that's yet another subject).
But even if we were to assume that Oswald, just by pure chance and good fortune, had heard Bill Shelley say something to someone else at that precise time when Oswald was leaving the building but was still within earshot of Shelley's voice .... is it reasonable to think that Shelley would have been telling his employees as early as 12:33 PM (just three minutes after the shooting had occurred) that there would definitely be no more work done that day at the Book Depository? Wouldn't that have been a bit early for Shelley (or anyone) to have been making a decision like that?
You can argue, of course, that the bedlam and confusion and chaos caused by the Presidential assassination attempt was certainly a major enough event to cause William Shelley to almost immediately make such a "No More Work Today" decision.
But, still, 12:33 seems a bit early for such a decision, in my opinion, especially in view of the fact that President Kennedy had not even arrived at Parkland Hospital by that time, and therefore nobody at the Depository (as of 12:33) was aware of JFK's condition or, in fact, if he had positively been struck by the gunfire at all.
GREG DOUDNA SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Since you brought up "ballpark" figures, maybe these stats can tie into this discussion....
Via the large number of analytic statistics used in Major League Baseball nowadays, they can easily calculate how fast a player can run from Point A to Point B (such as home plate to first base). And I noted tonight that Dodgers' superstar Shohei Ohtani, in 2022, averaged 4.07 seconds when running between home and first base. (He was with the Angels then, of course.)
That means that Ohtani could have gotten from the Grassy Knoll fence to the TSBD front steps in 6.33 seconds (assuming your "140 feet" estimate is fairly accurate).
Now, of course, I'm certainly not saying that Mr. Pierce Allman of WFAA Radio in Dallas could run as fast as the fastest man in Major League Baseball (although I think a man on my team, the Cincinnati Reds, just might be even faster---Elly De La Cruz; but that's another debate altogether). :)
But if we just want to use "ballpark" type figures and start with the absolute FASTEST time that anybody on the planet could likely make such a Dealey Plaza sprint, then I'd say that your estimate of 11 seconds is probably a pretty decent guess for any guy with average running speed who isn't making $28-Million per season as the Los Angeles Dodgers Designated Hitter. 😁
SANDY LARSEN SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Incorrect.
Marrion Baker never used the word "hallway" in his 11/22 affidavit [HERE]. He said "I saw a man walking away from the stairway". And, technically, Oswald was walking "away" from the "stairway" when Baker first saw him.
"Why can't conspiracists accept Marrion Baker's "third or fourth floor" statement for what it so clearly is — a simple and honest mistake made by a police officer who was in a chaotic and frantic situation within minutes of the President having just been shot, and who was not paying close attention at all to what floor he was standing on when he pointed his gun at Lee Harvey Oswald's stomach in the lunchroom on November 22, 1963?" -- DVP; December 2017
Also See:
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/The Lunchroom Encounter
DAVID VON PEIN LATER ADDED:
As I mentioned in my "Lunchroom" link above, I think it's kind of interesting to take notice of the fact that the late Vincent Bugliosi, who wrote the book excerpt pictured below, evidently had no idea at all that today's 21st Century Conspiracy Theorists have invented a brand-new theory surrounding the "Second-Floor Lunchroom Encounter". With that ridiculous "new" fantasy theory being, of course: The Lunchroom Encounter Never Happened At All.
Click to enlarge:
GREG DOUDNA SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Hi again Greg,
Can you explain once again the reason for why Lee Oswald LIED to the press (and to the world via the live television cameras which were focused on him) when he said he was INSIDE the Depository building at the time of JFK's murder? [See video below.]
So, assuming LHO was really "out with Bill Shelley in front" at exactly 12:30 when JFK was being shot, not only does Oswald NOT tell the world that key and critical fact about being OUTSIDE the building at 12:30 (when he had a perfect chance to do so in the video below), but he actually decides to tell a LIE and say that he was IN the building instead.
I would think that those statements by Oswald would be very difficult to reconcile and to explain in a logical manner if you're a believer in the "Prayer Man Is Oswald" theory.
And I realize that there are some conspiracy believers who seem to think that Oswald's "in the building" statement to the press on 11/22/63 is not at all inconsistent with Oswald also being the Prayer Man figure on the TSBD steps. But as I discussed with various CTers several years ago [HERE], such a notion regarding the location of the Depository's front steps is just not a reasonable one.
GREG DOUDNA SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
If I was the prosecutor of Lee Harvey Oswald at his murder trial, and if I was trying to convince the jury that Oswald could not possibly be the so-called "Prayer Man" figure seen in the film recorded in Dealey Plaza by WBAP-TV cameraman James Darnell on 11/22/63, I would hammer away at the following key points to make my case:
1. Lee Harvey Oswald himself, when given ample opportunity on Nov. 22 and Nov. 23, never bothered to tell the world (via live TV) that he was standing outside on the front steps of the Book Depository Building at the precise time when President Kennedy was being shot and killed. (This #1 fact would be a huge hurdle for Oswald and his defense team to overcome in the courtroom.)
2. Oswald took a long(-ish) paper package into the TSBD on the morning of 11/22/63, and he LIED about the contents of that package to fellow worker Buell Wesley Frazier by telling Frazier the package contained curtain rods. (And I think I could easily prove to the jury's satisfaction that Oswald's "curtain rods" story was indeed a lie, by introducing these facts at the trial.)
3. It was established beyond all reasonable doubt by firearms tests that Oswald's very own rifle was fired at JFK's motorcade on November 22, 1963. And it was also established that there was no conclusive evidence to indicate that any gun other than Oswald's C2766 Mannlicher-Carcano rifle was fired at the motorcade in Dealey Plaza.
4. As far as this writer (and temporary prosecutor) is aware, Lee Oswald was the only Depository employee who was known to have been inside the TSBD Building at the time JFK was shot and then left the building very shortly after the shooting took place. (Any "Prayer Man" alibi attempt by Oswald or his defense counsel notwithstanding, of course.)
Most of the other employees did just the opposite---they were outside during the time of the assassination, but then went back inside the building after the shooting had occurred. I would argue to the jury that such an "inside then outside" action by Oswald most certainly indicates an attempt to flee the scene of a crime that Oswald himself was very much involved in committing.
5. Oswald then took a bus and cab to his roominghouse in Oak Cliff, and then armed himself with a revolver. He then walked to Tenth Street and murdered Police Officer J.D. Tippit by shooting him four times. (If the Tippit murder is declared out of bounds and is severed from a JFK murder trial, then I'll be forced to introduce all this evidence which conclusively proves that Oswald murdered Officer Tippit at a second jury trial.)
6. I would then proceed to introduce all of the remaining pieces of evidence which, in their totality, prove beyond all reasonable doubt that Lee Harvey Oswald killed President John F. Kennedy and that Oswald was most certainly not the person in this picture known as "Prayer Man". Most of that additional evidence is discussed at my website below:
Wrapping Up....
Yes, I believe my arguments would (and should) be more than strong enough to secure a Guilty verdict from a reasonable and sensible jury.
And regarding your last question....
In my closing arguments to the jury, I would hammer away--again and again--at my #1 item listed above: the fact that Lee Oswald himself didn't even mention his alleged ironclad "I Was Outside On The Steps" alibi when he had the perfect opportunity to do so in the hallways at Dallas City Hall on the very night of JFK's murder.
Plus, I would also forcefully remind the jury that Oswald had more than just one chance to tell the world (via the TV cameras) about his "out front with Shelley" alibi during his two days in police custody. But he failed to say a single word about it on those other occasions as well.
In addition, I would also stress to the jury that Oswald told Police Homicide Captain J. Will Fritz that he (Oswald) was "on the first floor", not outside the building, when JFK was shot [see WCR Page 600 and WCR Page 613].
GREG DOUDNA SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Since Lee Harvey Oswald's minute-by-minute and step-by-step movements within the Texas School Book Depository during the key moments just before and just after President Kennedy was shot are not known (and can never be known) with 100% certainty, then I suppose anyone could come up with some kind of a scenario in which Oswald ends up not being a gunman in JFK's murder on 11/22/63. (And, of course, many people have invented such scenarios over the years.)
The question I'm about to ask below doesn't really prove anything, but I think it's a good question to ask once in a while anyway)....
Who do you think is MORE LIKELY (on ANY given day, including 11/22/63) to use a rifle that was proven to have been owned and possessed by Lee Harvey Oswald?
Is the answer to that last question "Lee Harvey Oswald"? Or is the answer "somebody other than Lee Harvey Oswald"?
Food for thought anyway.
And then there's Howard Brennan's Warren Commission testimony, in which he positively identified Oswald as JFK's assassin.
Almost all conspiracists totally ignore Brennan's testimony, of course. But his positive I.D. of Oswald is still going to exist in Warren Commission Volume 3 whether anyone wants to believe it or not:
DAVID W. BELIN -- "Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can or cannot positively identify the man you saw on the sixth floor window as the same man that you saw in the police station?"
HOWARD L. BRENNAN -- "I could at that time I could, with all sincerity, identify him as being the same man."
In Summary....
The sum total of all the evidence in both the JFK and Tippit murder cases most certainly indicates that Lee Oswald was (beyond reasonable doubt, IMO) guilty of shooting both of those men with his own guns.
An attempt to place Oswald's Carcano rifle into the hands of some unknown shooter who fired that gun from the sixth floor of the Depository is a scenario that conspiracy believers can put forth if they so desire. But such a scenario is always going to be built on a foundation of nothing but speculation and guesswork, with no solid evidence to support it at all.
GREG DOUDNA SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
As I stated earlier, it's ALL of the evidence in its entirety that convicts Oswald, IMO.
And there's the fact that no strangers were seen in the building by anyone on 11/22 (except for the old man using the bathroom on the 1st floor).
Do you really believe that Oswald gave some stranger his rifle, and the stranger then shot JFK with it? Plus, the stranger/assassin somehow managed to GET INTO and OUT OF the building totally unnoticed by anyone who worked in the TSBD? (Not an impossible task, I suppose, but does it sound very probable?)
Or, as an alternative to the "stranger" theory, do you perhaps think that Oswald handed off his Carcano to a fellow TSBD employee?
JOSEPH McBRIDE SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I've never understood why so many conspiracy theorists have decided to totally ignore all the evidence (paperwork) that proves Oswald ordered and owned Rifle C2766. It's absurd.
A much better conspiracy theory regarding the rifle (and the revolver LHO positively owned too) would be for CTers to just admit the obvious truth---that being: Oswald did order, own, and possess the Carcano rifle (and the Smith & Wesson revolver)---and then the CTers can theorize that some unknown conspirators framed Oswald with his own rifle.
That theory makes so much more sense than to pretend that all of the evidence connected with the rifle has been faked, such as all of the Klein's paperwork and the backyard photos and LHO's palmprint on the rifle.
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/12/Oswald Ordered The Rifle
JOSEPH McBRIDE SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Joseph, does it really surprise you so much to learn that not everybody in this world accepts the ridiculous (and impossible) notion that all of the rifle and handgun evidence "was fabricated"?
Get real.
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/10/Oswald's Money Order
GREG DOUDNA SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
But if Oswald was really "Prayer Man" on the front steps, and if Lee had played a "different role" in JFK's assassination that day in Dallas, I would feel compelled to ask....
Why, then, wasn't Oswald doing at least a little something to try and protect the gunman who was using Oswald's rifle up on the 6th floor at 12:30?
Why wasn't Lee also on the sixth floor when the shooting occurred, standing near the stairs and elevators acting as a "lookout", in order to watch out for anybody who might wander onto the sixth floor so that Lee could yell out a warning to the gunman in the Sniper's Nest?
Instead, even though Oswald himself is involved in the plot to kill the President (per Greg Doudna's analysis), Lee decides to do NOTHING at all to help or aid his co-conspirator who was using LHO's gun up on the 6th floor. Lee, instead, decides to wander outside to the front steps just as the shooting is taking place.
Doesn't make much sense to me.
This is what tends to happen when someone makes an attempt to "adjust" the evidence that exists in the JFK murder case. Since the evidence of Lee Oswald's guilt is so overwhelming, then any attempt to "adjust" or "rearrange" that evidence in an effort to take the gun out of Oswald's own hands at 12:30 PM on 11/22/63 is almost assuredly going to end up producing a theory that doesn't make much sense.
DAVID VON PEIN LATER SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN ALSO SAID:
We all should keep in mind the FACT that Lee H. Oswald was a FIRST-CLASS LIAR starting at 2:00 PM CST on 11/22/63. And a lot of the things we find in the police/FBI reports and notes are (quite clearly) LIES being uttered to the police by a person (Oswald) who was trying the best he could to hide his involvement in the murder of the 35th President.
And when a person starts telling a bunch of lies, it sometimes becomes difficult to keep all of the lies straight, and the lies also sometimes can become rather incoherent and (at times) contradictory.
It's much easier to keep the truth straight than it is to juggle a dozen lies that a murderer needs to tell. Perhaps that's why Oswald told the police the two ridiculous and absurd (provable) lies about how he ate his lunch AFTER his encounter with Officer Marrion Baker and then---AFTER the encounter with Baker and AFTER eating his lunch---he went outside and "stood around for 5 or 10 minutes with Foreman Bill Shelley" (which, as we know, was impossible due to the fact that we know that Oswald, after walking several blocks east on Elm Street, got on Cecil McWatters' bus at about 12:40 PM, so there's no way he was still in the area of the Book Depository AFTER eating a post-Baker-encounter lunch AND after spending up to ten minutes hanging out with Mr. Shelley).
My main point (once again) --- Oswald was a huge liar!
GREG DOUDNA SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
But my main conclusion, as I mentioned earlier, is that Oswald was lying through his teeth when he said a lot of the things he said during his interrogation. And sometimes lies can sound a bit nonsensical, can't they?
Plus....
When we rely on James Bookhout's typewritten FBI report (WCR, p.619), versus having to rely on just rough notes, the chronology is clearly spelled out for us by Mr. Bookhout....
1. Oswald has his second-floor lunchroom encounter with Police Officer Marrion Baker (after "having just purchased" a Coke, according to LHO).
2. Oswald then takes that Coke down to the first floor and eats his lunch.
3. Oswald then goes outside and sees Bill Shelley.
I think the key word that FBI Agent Bookhout uses in his solo report (seen below) that verifies the chronology between items 2 and 3 listed above is the word "thereafter" --- "He thereafter went outside...".
It's obvious via the use of that word ("thereafter") that James Bookhout's understanding of what he heard Lee Oswald tell Captain Fritz was that Oswald went outside only after he had eaten his lunch on the first floor and only after LHO had encountered Officer Baker on the 2nd floor (as crazy as that chronology might sound to us now).
And the three-part chronology I just listed above perfectly matches what we find in James Hosty's handwritten notes discovered in 2019 (also seen below).
If some people want to believe that Bookhout and Hosty (plus Captain Fritz as well) deliberately lied and intentionally placed the things that Oswald said out of the proper order, then I guess they are free to believe that such deception took place.
But based on all of the evidence left behind by the assassin on the 6th floor (e.g., LHO's rifle, paper bag with LHO's prints, and LHO's prints on the Sniper's Nest boxes), I'll choose to believe Oswald shot JFK from the sixth floor, and any inconsistencies and/or contradictions that exist within the various police/FBI reports and notes are the result of less-than-perfect note-taking with respect to the non-stop lies that were being told by an assassin who preferred not to admit he murdered the President.
DAVID VON PEIN ALSO SAID ALL THIS AND
POSTED THE IMAGES BELOW:
GREG DOUDNA SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
In keeping with Greg's last humorous post above, I'll offer up the following info....
I have recently had a "Eureka!" moment and have finally discovered who "Prayer Man" really is!
PM is the blob seen in the picture on the right below! I'm sure of it! The resemblance is remarkable/uncanny/startling, don't you think?!
The blob first appeared in the TV series "Jonny Quest", in the January 1965 episode "The Invisible Monster". But prior to the blob's starring role in the Quest series, he/it was seen several times at Jack Ruby's nightclub in Dallas in October and early November of 1963. Plus, the beast was also seen driving Lee Harvey Oswald to work on 11/21/63, just one day before the assassination!
Thank goodness this ongoing "Prayer Man" mystery has now been solved. The "PM" object in the Darnell Film can now be officially renamed "Prayer Monster" (so that we can at least retain the "PM" initials for the beast). 😁
David Von Pein
October 11-28, 2024
================================
GIL JESUS SAID THIS.
JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I guess slugging a police officer in the face and pulling a gun on him wasn't nearly enough of a reason to arrest the guy, huh?
And the slugging and the gun-pulling was occurring, of course, very soon after Officer Tippit had been shot nearby.
But some people (for some odd reason) seem to think the cops just decided to arrest Oswald AND charge him with a policeman's murder based on no evidence or "probable cause" whatsoever.
Perhaps Mr. DiEugenio is one of those people. I'm guessing he is.
GIL JESUS SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
The reason why Police Officer M.N. McDonald didn't go straight to Lee Oswald in the Texas Theater is fully explained by Officer McDonald himself in the 1983 interview below (fast forward to 4:33)....
More material concerning Dallas Patrolman M.N. (Nick) McDonald:
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/Interviews With Dallas Policemen Nick McDonald & Paul Bentley
STEVE THOMAS SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I think when Officer Nick McDonald said "holding my gun" in this newspaper article, he simply meant that he had his hand ON his gun (in case he needed to draw it quickly). I don't think he meant that he had his gun completely out of its holster.
And my above interpretation is backed up by what McDonald told Eddie Barker at the 3:17 mark in THIS 1964 CBS NEWS VIDEO, in which McDonald was specifically asked by Barker if McDonald had drawn his gun as he approached Oswald in the theater, and McDonald said "No".
GIL JESUS SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
What we are treated to in Gil Jesus' post above is a reprehensible theory that has absolutely ZERO evidence or support to back it up.
But, as we all know, a lot of conspiracy-happy individuals in this world couldn't care less how many innocent people they accuse of planting evidence and lying and manufacturing evidence against Lee Oswald.
It's disgraceful. And Gil Jesus should be hiding his head in shame after writing his above wholly-unproven and embarrassing hunk of conjecture.
Here's how things really unfolded inside the Texas Theater at 1:50 PM Central Standard Time on Friday, November 22nd, 1963:
DAVID VON PEIN ALSO SAID:
Regarding the very last paragraph of Gil Jesus' last post linked above....
The ridiculous alleged statement that Dallas radio station KBOX said on 11/22/63 was made by Lee Oswald when he was being arrested at the Texas Theater is a statement that no sensible person could possibly believe actually came out of the mouth of Lee Harvey Oswald, especially since we know that Oswald, on numerous occasions during the assassination weekend, vigorously denied shooting anyone. The ridiculous alleged statement is this one:
"I killed me a President and a cop, now all I need is two more."
And, incredibly, KBOX Radio's source for Oswald having uttered the above words was Police Officer M.N. McDonald himself. Go to the 19:00 mark in the video below to hear the KBOX reporters repeat the ridiculous alleged statement multiple times (with a slight variation in the statement's wording upon repeating it). McDonald's name is specifically mentioned as the source for the alleged LHO quote starting at 21:08:
Yes, it would have been nice if Oswald had indeed confessed to killing JFK and Officer Tippit, which the above absurd quotation certainly suggests, but all sensible people know that Oswald never did any such thing.
So, the question I'd then ask the conspiracy theorists who seem to think that Officer Nick McDonald "planted" the revolver on Oswald inside the theater is this:
If Nick McDonald was really and truly the rotten, scheming, evidence-planting police officer that those conspiracists believe him to be, then why in the world didn't he ever once during the rest of his life AFTER 11/22/63 say anything at all about hearing Oswald's "I killed me a cop and a President" confession?
But not once did McDonald ever say anything to anyone about Lee Oswald making any such statement of confession (or even anything remotely close to it). So all we're left with is the hearsay reported by KBOX.
JEAN CEULEMANS SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID THIS.
RON BULMAN SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
So, let me try to wrap my head around the way you think it went down at City Hall with Oswald and those bullets....
Do you think a cop just walked up to Oswald (or sneaked up on him from behind) and somehow managed to slip five bullets into his pocket without Oswald even noticing what the crooked cop was doing?
Why didn't Oswald shout out something like this to the live TV cameras and reporters who were swarming all around him at Dallas Police Headquarters on both Friday and Saturday?....
These miserable cops are framing me! Somehow, some way they managed to plant five bullets in my pocket! And I guess they expected me not to notice AND not say a word about it!!
Or didn't Oswald give a damn about the fact that the police were physically planting evidence on his body?
And the same goes for the nonsensical theory of Officer McDonald planting the revolver in Oswald's pants in the theater. Apparently Oswald didn't give a damn about that little hunk of evidence-planting either, because he never said a word to the press or anyone else about that little incident either.
Conspiracy theorists always manage to look mighty silly (and desperate) whenever these discussions about alleged "Evidence Planting" continually come up.
DAVID VON PEIN LATER SAID THIS:
If, as many conspiracy theorists have suggested, Oswald never really owned any revolver at all on November 22nd, 1963, then I'm just wondering how those CTers explain the fact that Oswald ADMITTED to carrying his revolver into the movie theater on 11/22?
There were at least three witnesses to Oswald saying he did take a gun into the theater (Bookhout, Hosty, Fritz). Were they all liars?
"Oswald admitted to carrying a pistol with him to this movie." -- Warren Report; Page 613
David Von Pein
October 16-22, 2024
================================
GERRY DOWN SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I don't know for sure, but I would assume that at least the lengthier telephone calls that Vincent Bugliosi made to various people during the course of writing his Kennedy book must have been recorded in some fashion. Otherwise, I don't think Vince could have included such lengthy quotes from those calls in his book, such as these two phone conversations that Vince had with Dr. Robert McClelland in 2002.
I suppose all of those detailed McClelland quotes could have been a result of some fast note-taking on Bugliosi's part. But I doubt it. I think those calls were likely recorded.
As to what happened to the recordings (and/or written notes), I haven't the foggiest. But I'm guessing they still survive today. Vince once told a radio interviewer in 2007 that he had tons of stuff stored in his garage at his L.A. home, including every single early draft he ever wrote for his JFK book. So I'll bet any phone recordings are still around, probably put into storage somewhere after Vince passed away in 2015.
I'd love to hear all of the uncut phone calls Vince made to witnesses. The call he made to Buell Wesley Frazier on March 24, 2004, confirming the existence of the Dr. Pepper machine on the first floor of the Depository, would be of particular interest to me (among many others, such as the ones listed below)....
Telephone interview of Jack Tatum by author [Vincent Bugliosi] on June 1, 1986
Telephone interview of Ted Callaway by author on May 17, 1986
Telephone interview of James Leavelle by author on August 24, 2006
Telephone interview of Wesley Liebeler by author on December 7, 1999
Telephone interview of Dr. Michael Baden by author on January 8, 2000
Telephone interview of Dr. Cyril Wecht by author on October 7, 2002
Telephone interview of Ruth Paine by author on June 28, 1986
DAVID VON PEIN LATER SAID:
Related Stuff....
Shortly after Vince Bugliosi passed away in June 2015, Steve Barber was kind enough to send me some of his audio files containing some of the recorded messages that Mr. Bugliosi had left on Steve's telephone answering machine in late 2006 and early 2007, shortly before Vincent's book "Reclaiming History" was released.
Here's the conversation I had with Steve Barber in 2015 regarding those recordings (plus links to the recordings themselves):
IN A MESSAGE SENT TO STEVE BARBER, DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Hi Steve,
You mentioned in a Facebook post that you have your taped telephone messages from Vince saved on MP3 files, which I would just love to hear. If you wanted me to do it, I could even make them available for people to hear at my websites. But I totally understand if you prefer to keep those memories just to yourself.
STEVE BARBER SAID:
Hi Dave,
It is my pleasure to share these messages with you! I was thinking I had more of them, but this is what I found on my CDs. You can tell he is really worn out by the sound of his voice on one particular call.
I will leave it up to you to decide whether or not these are fitting for your blog. He was ALWAYS in such a rush, and I don't know how he did it, but you are welcome to use them however you wish.
Take care and thanks so much for your interest in these!
DVP SAID:
Thank you, Steve, for providing these very interesting Vince Bugliosi telephone messages.
These messages were recorded on Steve Barber's telephone answering machine in 2006 and 2007.
I love rare things like this. These phone excerpts are just great, particularly when Vince wants to make absolutely sure exactly what words Steve Barber heard when Steve played that paper record that came out of "Gallery" magazine back in 1979.
David Von Pein
October 18, 2024
================================
GREG DOUDNA SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Greg,
The curtain rod in LHO's room was damaged by the police when they searched the room. That information is found in Commission Document No. 705:
"Mrs. Johnson stated that when the Dallas, Texas, Police searched this room following Oswald's arrest, they bent the rod which held the drapes and curtains. Consequently, she stated, she had the old rod taken down and replaced it with a traverse rod and aqua-colored acetate drapes. A traverse rod and acetate drapes replaced the lace curtain which was on the end wall window." -- CD705
-----------------------
Here's a picture, taken on either Nov. 22 or 23, of the damaged rod:
PAT SPEER SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I agree that there's no corroboration for the police having caused the curtain rod damage. But Mrs. Gladys Johnson did tell the FBI (in CD705) that it was her opinion that it was the police that caused the rod damage, not Lee Oswald.
And I think it's reasonable to think that Mrs. Johnson was exactly correct. Because I don't think it's reasonable to believe that the curtain rod was already bent and damaged prior to the time when the police would have searched the room on Nov. 22 AND have that damage go unnoticed by Mrs. Johnson.
Keep in mind that the last time Lee Oswald was in that room prior to the assassination was Thursday morning, November 21. I would suggest that Mrs. Johnson or Mr. Johnson or Earlene Roberts would have likely noticed the damage to the curtain rod prior to November 22, if the damage had occurred as early as Thursday morning.
Yes, it's certainly possible that the sagging rod could have gone unnoticed for a whole day-and-a-half (or thereabouts), but, in my opinion, the "police [or reporters] did it" explanation provided by Gladys Johnson makes the most sense to me.
GREG DOUDNA SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I wonder why, then, Lee would feel the need to make up an additional false story to tell Buell Wesley Frazier --- that being the story that Frazier has told several times about how Marina had made Lee some curtains to put in his room, and that was the reason he needed curtain rods.
But if the rod in his room had really been sagging/broken, why didn't Oswald just simply tell Frazier the truth and say that he needed the rods to replace one that had busted?
You, Greg, surely agree with me that Lee lied when he said Marina had made him some curtains....right?*
* I'll admit, however, that many things that have been uttered by Buell Frazier in his interviews since 2002 must be taken with a grain of salt. And one of those salty items just might be when Buell said that Oswald told him that Marina had actually made some curtains for Lee to hang in his rented room.
More "Curtain Rod" talk HERE.
David Von Pein
October 25, 2024
-Nov-24-1963%20(Officer%20Tells%20About%20Struggle%20Of%20Oswald).jpg){kind=link}