Part 1362 of my "JFK Assassination Arguments" series includes a variety of my posts and comments covering the period of March 1—31, 2023. To read the entire forum discussion from which my own comments have been extracted, click on the "Full Discussion" logo at the bottom of each individual segment.
PAT SPEER SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
A couple of basic (common-sense) facts that CTers never want to acknowledge:
1. There were no bullets in President Kennedy at his autopsy.
2. There wasn't enough damage in Kennedy to account for a bullet just stopping on a dime inside JFK's body, let alone TWO missiles performing such a ridiculous task. (And by far the favored theory amongst CTers is the proverbial "Two Bullets Entered JFK But Neither One Exited" load of bunk.)
And, of course, the Clark Panel DID find a "track" between the throat wound and the back wound:
"There is a track between the two cutaneous wounds as indicated by subcutaneous emphysema and small metallic fragments on the X-rays and the contusion of the apex of the right lung and laceration of the trachea described in the Autopsy Report." -- Clark Panel Report
(Now awaiting Pat Speer's regularly scheduled trashing of the Clark Panel's report and its top member.)
MICHAEL CRANE SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
You're propping up early erroneous information, Michael. And you surely know it's erroneous. There was no bullet "lodged behind the President's ear". And that fact was proven at the autopsy.
Why should I believe all three autopsy surgeons lied about many things concerning the autopsy?
If you want to think they all lied....fine. But I'm not travelling down that road.
PAT SPEER SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
But don't forget the one thing that the autopsy surgeons relied on (probably above all others) that resulted in those doctors concluding that the bullet exited Kennedy's throat (after Humes talked to Dr. Perry on Saturday morning, that is):
Common sense.
It's just a shame that that particular commodity is in such short supply amongst JFKA conspiracy theorists.
TOM GRAM SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Yes, Tom, I agree with you about LNers not really being in agreement with the HSCA when it comes to some of the details associated with the SBT. I'm certainly not in agreement with the HSCA on multiple things. Such as:
1.) The HSCA's Z190 timing for the SBT, which is totally Ludicrous. (Especially when taking into account the very low position of JFK's arms almost two full seconds later, at Z224.)
2.) The HSCA's "leaning forward" status of JFK during the SBT timeframe --- Ludicrous (and provably wrong, per the Zapruder Film).
3.) The HSCA's determination that JFK's back wound was actually anatomically LOWER on Kennedy's body than the throat wound --- Wrong (and I would say provably wrong, as I discuss here).
But....
When all was said and done....and after ALL of the evidence was examined by the HSCA (including the medical evidence)....the House Select Committee did still conclude that Bullet CE399 did, indeed, go through the bodies of both President Kennedy and Governor Connally.
So the HSCA definitely got the final conclusion correct, but they certainly arrived at that conclusion in some very strange ways.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Re: the color of the sixth-floor assassin's clothing....
I believe Oswald was probably wearing only his white T-shirt when he shot JFK. (With Oswald's brown shirt sitting on the floor or on top of a box in the Sniper's Nest during the actual shooting.)
And, therefore, via such a shirt scenario, Howard Brennan would be correct about Oswald not wearing the brown "arrest" shirt at the moment of the shooting itself.
RON BULMAN SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
It's just my own theory of what I think happened. It's not really the type of thing you can "cite" for.
I think Oswald shot JFK while wearing only his white T-shirt. (And there are a few witnesses who said the 6th-Floor sniper had on "light colored" clothing, which would be helpful to the "T-shirt" theory.)
I think Oswald then used his brown shirt as a fingerprint-wiping rag as he raced to the northwest corner of the sixth floor after the shooting (although, yes, he missed the prints on the trigger guard). And that, IMO, is how the fresh fibers from his brown shirt got wedged under the butt plate of the rifle.
Oswald then dumped the rifle amongst the book stacks near the northwest stairwell, and as he went down the stairs, he hurriedly put his brown shirt on, but leaving it untucked and unbuttoned as he entered the second-floor lunchroom.
Hence, Officer Marrion Baker testified in this manner concerning the brown item of clothing he saw Oswald wearing when they were together in the lunchroom on November 22nd:
"I assume it was a jacket, it was hanging out." -- Marrion L. Baker [3 H 257]
PAT SPEER SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
So you say. I disagree.
And it certainly IS a matter of "opinion". Because none of us can KNOW for certain what parts of the rifle Oswald might have missed when (or if) he tried to hurriedly wipe his prints off the gun in a frenzied dash across the 6th floor.
You, Pat Speer, are placing a level of "It didn't happen" certainty on this topic that you cannot possibly prove.
PAT SPEER SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Go tell that to Oswald ["Fingerprints would not adhere to the wood stock."].
Oswald might very well have felt it was necessary to wipe down the rifle's wooden stock. We can't know what he was thinking when it comes to the parts of the rifle that he might have thought fingerprints would adhere to.
Also....
The fact that there were fresh fibers matching Oswald's brown arrest shirt wedged into a surface of the C2766 rifle is, in my opinion, pretty good circumstantial evidence that Oswald did, indeed, utilize that brown shirt to wipe off the gun on 11/22. Otherwise, how did the shirt fibers manage to firmly wedge themselves onto the rifle?
Yes, I know that you, Pat, think the fibers were planted onto the rifle by the evil DPD. But that's a theory that only a desperate CTer would come up with. So, IMO, that ridiculous theory about the cops wanting to plant some fibers under the butt plate of the rifle is something that (to use Pat Speer's own words in a post to me earlier) "did not happen".
Yes, there are certainly other legitimate (non-planting) ways for the fibers to have gotten there other than using the shirt as a print-wiping tool. But my theory has some weight too. And it can't possibly be totally disproved.
PAT SPEER SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
That's a nice hunk of irony there, Pat. Because, IMO, it's Patrick J. Speer (not DVP) who belongs in the "desperate" category when it comes to the topic of "How Did The Shirt Fibers Get On The Rifle?"
My theory regarding that topic isn't nearly as desperate as yours.
But, of course, it doesn't make a bit of difference whether my theory regarding the shirt fibers is correct or not. Because Oswald's guilt in the JFK murder has been established beyond all reasonable doubt---even without wiping down the gun.
David Von Pein
March 1-2, 2023
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BENJAMIN COLE SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I haven't the slightest idea [why Dallas Police Department Sergeant Gerald L. Hill told author Dale K. Myers in 1996 that he had looked at the bottom of the bullet shells that littered Tenth Street after Officer J.D. Tippit was killed]. But Hill said something completely different here.
BENJAMIN COLE SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I'll try.
And you are right to scold me regarding Gerald Hill. He told Dale Myers one thing in 1996, but three years earlier he told the Sixth Floor Museum something else entirely. And as of this date it's just not possible to figure out why. Therefore, we're left with a conflicting record.
But I do not categorize Gerald Hill as a "liar". The same thing applies to Buell Frazier, who also has told conflicting tales over the years about various things. But I wouldn't classify Buell as a deliberate liar either.
David Von Pein
March 1, 2023
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DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
While looking at some old newspapers today (March 9, 2023), I found this very interesting UPI article in the July 22, 1962, edition of The Cincinnati Enquirer (also seen below).
The article is titled:
"Would-Be Assassins Show Rise
But Kennedy Is Protected"
Here's one of the intriguing nuggets of info included in the article:
"There has been an alarming increase in the number of threats since President Kennedy took office. The Secret Service investigated 870 threatening letters addressed to the President last year [1961]. .... The figures are about 50% higher than those for the last year of the Eisenhower administration."
Those figures mean that President Kennedy was receiving an average of about 2.5 threats by mail each and every day in 1961. And that's just the letters. Who knows how many more verbal threats were being aimed at Kennedy in other ways (via telephone, TV, radio, etc.).
BOB NESS SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
But, whether conspiracy believers like it or not, that's precisely where the evidence leads us, Bob---to that "crazy mixed-up kid" named Oswald.
Just follow Oswald's own movements and actions on both Nov. 21 and Nov. 22. If you do that, you can't help but lean toward the "Lone Assassin" conclusion. It's inevitable.
David Von Pein
March 9-10, 2023
GIL JESUS SAID:
THE WEAK CASE AGAINST OSWALD:
http://groups.google.com/alt.conspiracy.jfk/2Mhp65Waq6wJ
[...]
1. The alleged murder weapon could not be connected to Oswald and only Oswald. The Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, serial # C2766, was manufacured by ten different manufacturing plants in Italy during WWII and they all used the same serial numbers. To say that THIS PARTICULAR Carcano was the EXACT ONE ordered by A.J. Hidell from Klien's Sporting Goods in Chicago in January 1963 is stretching it. Especially when there were 9 more in the world with the exact same serial number.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
The above is a ridiculous (and flat-out wrong) statement that continues to be regurgitated year after year by desperate conspiracy theorists.
Why on Earth would anyone think that there were TEN Carcano rifles manufactured with the exact same serial number of C2766 (or any other serial number)? Such a belief is foolish. Plus, it totally defies the whole reason for distinct "serial numbers" being placed on products in the first place, which is to give each individual item its own unique and singular identity. Otherwise, what's the point of putting any serial number on any product?
And, of course, we've never once seen any conspiracy theorist actually provide any proof that there were multiple Mannlicher-Carcano Model 91/38 rifles produced at the various Italian manufacturing plants with the same identical serial number of C2766. That ludicrous belief resides only in the vivid imaginations of many conspiracy believers.
THE VERY STRONG CASE AGAINST OSWALD:
http://Oswald-Is-Guilty.blogspot.com
David Von Pein
March 11, 2023
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GERRY DOWN SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
NBC-TV was the only network that actually managed to air the murder of Lee Harvey Oswald "live". The other television networks only showed replays. CBS missed it by just 5 seconds or so.
The CBS affiliate in Dallas—KRLD-TV—did videotape the shooting "live" as it was happening in the police basement, but whether or not anyone watching KRLD-TV actually saw this live footage of the exact moment of the shooting, I really do not know. It's quite possible that KRLD, like most other CBS affiliate stations at that time, was airing Roger Mudd's report from the steps of the U.S. Capitol at the precise moment when Ruby was killing Oswald. I'm just not sure.
Related links:
David Von Pein
March 15, 2023
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JOE BAUER SAID THIS.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I'm not unsure about who killed JFK at all. Far from it.
And that's because the evidence speaks loudly in this case. And that evidence is pointing directly at one single person and no one else.
But conspiracy theorists are always insisting that I should just disregard the physical evidence in this case because those CTers are always insisting (without a shred of proof, of course) that the evidence is all (or mostly) fake and/or manufactured.
And Lee Harvey Oswald's very own unusual (and incriminating) actions and statements/lies on Nov. 21 and Nov. 22 are also things that conspiracy theorists don't want me to pay too much attention to either.
But I guess it's understandable why the "Oswald Is Innocent" conspiracy promoters want to stay a million miles away from Oswald's very own actions and movements. Because these things that Oswald did and said on 11/21/63 and 11/22/63 are saturated with his very own guilt.
Have you, Joe, ever even considered the possibility that Oswald was guilty and that there was no conspiracy---and that the idea of "conspiracy" in the JFK and J.D. Tippit murder cases has been the product and the invention of the many conspiracy theorists over the years who, let's face it, have been trying their darndest to find any signs of a conspiracy in the JFKA case (but, to date, have proved nothing)?
And doesn't at least the bulk of the evidence in the JFKA case suggest to you at least the possibility that Lee Oswald could have accomplished the murders of John Kennedy and Officer Tippit on his own, without the aid of anyone else's assistance or guiding hand?
I think it's about time for the JFKA conspiracy theorists to consider another reality. Namely, this one:
Oswald-Is-Guilty.blogspot.com
David Von Pein
March 16, 2023
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JOHN CORBETT SAID:
It's amazing how many misconceptions there are about the shots. The reality is the WC [Warren Commission] never concluded which shot missed. They didn't think they had conclusive evidence.
For many years, the popular misconception was that the second shot missed and all three shots were fired in 5.6 seconds. The WC did consider that a possibility, but did not commit to it.
Oliver Stone was particularly duplicitous on this point. In the scene in which Kevin Costner and his aide recreated the shooting, Costner supposedly timed the three shots at over 7 seconds and the aide said Oswald couldn't have fired 3 shots in 5.6 seconds, which would only have been a requirement if the second shot missed. Then the aide falsely claimed the WC concluded the first shot missed, which the WC never did.
What Stone did was conflate two mutually exclusive scenarios and present both as conclusions of the WC.
Given the luxury of decades of observation of the Z-film, we are able to conclude that it is almost certain it was the first shot that missed, but that was not a conclusion of the WCR.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
FYI / FWIW....
Here are some of my links which IMO deal fairly well with the subjects of "The 5.6 Seconds Myth" and "The Missed Shot" and "When Exactly Did The SBT Shot Occur?":
The "5.6 Seconds" Myth
The Missed Shot Controversy
John Connally & The SBT
Governor Connally's Lapel
Oliver Stone's Blunder
DVP's JFK Archives/Index/Single Bullet Theory
David Von Pein
March 31, 2023
