JFK ASSASSINATION ARGUMENTS (PART 907)

RAMON F. HERRERA SAID:

What is the political ideology of David Von Pein?

As most McAdams sycophants, I am convinced that Von Pein hates Obama.

Can anyone confirm/deny?


JASON BURKE SAID:

And, uh, Ramon... Now just what self-seeking, parasitical reason would you have for this?


RAMON F. HERRERA SAID:

I have a very accurate model, which I am refining. It starts simplistically:

— All Liberals know that the Far Right murdered Kennedy in 1963. It was a partisan hit and the divide persists, to this day.

— Conservatives (McAdams and sycophants) are Lone Nutters.

This obviously needs some revision. We have:

(a) Liberals who knows that the official version is a lie. See the Kennedys, Clintons, Gore, John Kerry, Oliver Stone, Tony Marsh, Jim Garrison, Jeff Morley, etc.

(b) Liberals who are terrified at the possibility that LBJ was involved in the murder. Pres. Carter, Jean Davison and Edward J. Epstein fall in this category.

The Conservative situation is far more interesting and is -as usual- based on hatred:

(c) Those Conservatives who hate Democrats more than anything are motivated by schadenfreude: "It was a freaking commie!!! One of your own!!" McAdams and -I suspect- von Pein [sic] are in this group.

(d) Those Conservatives who, above all, hate the government. Those, like Will Rogers, have never met a conspiracy they didn't like. See Birthers, Truthers, InfoWars, Breitbart, etc.

http://MotherJones.com/politics/chart-obama-conspiracy-theories

Jason: Based on your comment, your motivation is clearly hatred: Are you (c) or (d)?


"LAZ" SAID:

I think Von Pein is more a moderate. He's not an arch conservative.


RAMON F. HERRERA SAID:

Mr. Von Pein necessarily hates the Kennedys, since he is allying himself with the people who murdered JFK. I am sure that America's most important political family does not approve of what he does while using that revered image, in the most hypocritical manner.

What DVP does with that avatar can be compared to primitive, savage tribes, carrying around the head of the enemy that they decapitated.

At least John McAdams does not attempt to dissimulate his hatred towards the Kennedys, president Obama and liberal ideas and people in general.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Hilarious stuff there. Herrera's nonsensical explanation for my wanting to use an image of President Kennedy on the Internet can only elicit fits of laughter from reasonable and rational people.

Herrera evidently likes the idea of placing people he knows nothing about into his cozy little predefined cubbyholes -- like "Conservative", "Liberal", "Kennedy Hater", and "Hypocritical". I, for one, hate such labels. I always have. Fact is, I'm none of the above. And never have been.

But just keep on talking as if you know me inside-out, Ramon. I don't mind. I'm enjoying the show, as I watch you make a complete fool out of yourself.


REPLAY---

RAMON F. HERRERA SAID:

What is the political ideology of David Von Pein?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

I have none. None at all.

What makes you think I have any "political ideology", Ramon? Tea leaves? A Ouija board? I've never EVER talked "politics" on any Internet forum or on my own blogs.

Maybe you, Ramon, should stop trying to paint (i.e., smear) people with "ideologies" that do not apply at all.

I couldn't care less about politics. Never have. And if you're goofy enough to think I "hate" John Kennedy after visiting all my websites devoted exclusively to Mr. Kennedy and his family, then you're in dire need of a reality check.


RAMON F. HERRERA SAID:

Would the Kennedys approve of your activities? Attempting to insult and ridicule people who loved Jack and Jackie and are still in pain, due to (what they consider to be) a miscarriage of justice?

The answer is a resonant "NO".

A psychiatrist could clarify your motivations better. It is fascinating how you claim not to have any political ideology. That could be a good start.

[...]

BTW: My motivation is quite simple: as a computer specialist, I always try to categorize and simplify. .... The problem is that you are the odd man out, an outlier. Now you tell us that you are not even in the group with Jean Davison and J. Edward Epstein.

[...]

Attempting to classify somebody as Liberal or Conservative is hardly a smear. Notice the question mark in the subject line.

Do you vote?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Nope. Never have.


RAMON F. HERRERA SAID:

Who did you vote for in 2008 and 2012?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Nobody.


RAMON F. HERRERA SAID:

What is your opinion about our president Barack Obama?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

I have none.


JASON BURKE SAID:

Ah, Ramon will attempt to smear ya anyway.
Oh, sorry. "Classify" you.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

He'll probably just conclude that I am a liar....because he'll probably say something like this:

How can an American citizen, living in the state of Indiana (USA) in the year 2015, possibly not have any opinion at all about the current President of the United States?

But, as JFK liked to say with relish in many of his speeches, "the fact of the matter is..." ..... I have absolutely no opinion (be it good or bad) about Barack H. Obama.

And the reason is: I'm too ignorant of the facts surrounding anything to do with his Presidency to have an informed opinion about him. For the most part (99% or so), I haven't the slightest idea what Obama has done in his six years in office. Not the slightest. So I can't possibly offer up an informed opinion about the man as President.

I live almost exclusively in the 1960s. And have for years. I find it's much nicer there. ....







David Von Pein
February 24 & 26, 2015

JFK ASSASSINATION ARGUMENTS (PART 1318)

JOHN McADAMS SAID:

Message for David Von Pein....

Your videos have been my salvation in my JFK class this semester.

Marquette has removed the ability to play VHS tapes in classrooms. So a lot of good footage I had on those tapes was no longer usable.

But I found the footage I need -- mostly the two 60s CBS documentaries, and the 1993 Frontline documentary -- on your site.

The current DVD of the Frontline documentary has key footage cut out, especially the Odio material, but other stuff too.

So kudos for your efforts.


EDWARD BAUER SAID:

John, both your and David’s websites, along with the Mary Ferrell site, are unique, valuable sources of critical information. Kudos to you all.


"CLAVIGER" SAID:

Yes indeed, Kudos!

David Von Pein has a truly remarkable website. A veritable treasury of photos, debate, and discussion. It has been most helpful to me in researching this case. The Photo Gallery is a truly valuable well-organized resource.

Any college student taking a Debate Class can learn much from study of David's logical, calm response to heated and provocative debate. Hopefully this useful academic resource will be around for a long time to come.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Thanks for the "kudos" message, John. [And my thanks to Edward and Clav, too.]

It pleases me to know that at least a few people are getting some good out of the stuff I've put online.

And I want to remind you, John, that the videos I have stored and shared through Google Drive can all easily be downloaded at the touch of a button too. The "Download" button is located in the top-right part of each Google Drive webpage:







JOHN McADAMS SAID:

Yep, and they all import fine into MovieMaker.

The only videos I show pretty much unedited are the first 75 minutes of "Four Days in Dallas" [sic] (Wolper), and the movie "JFK" (an evening session).

Otherwise, class time is valuable, so I use edited clips, such as Ruth Paine explaining the coffee klatch that resulted in Lee getting his job or Domingo Benavides describing the Tippit shooting.

As I mentioned earlier, key footage was cut out of the Frontline documentary as released on DVD, and your having it online was a godsend.

Joe Newbrough on how 544 Camp Street was entirely separate from Banister's office and the Sylvia Odio testimony are two segments I used in class last Wednesday.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

When you said "MovieMaker", are you referring to the "Windows Movie Maker" video editing program produced by Microsoft? If so, I must say that I'm thrilled to find someone else besides myself who still uses Windows Movie Maker (.WMM) to create and edit videos on their computer. (I thought I might have been the last person in America who was still using it.) 😁

Personally, I like Windows Movie Maker very much. It's a pretty basic, no-frills program, but it's always worked fine for me and it has everything I really need --- even the older versions which I'm now forced to use when I get a new computer, due to the fact that new versions of WMM have unfortunately been discontinued by Microsoft. The biggest negative thing about WMM is the fact that it won't let you import MP4 videos into the interface. So I've always got to convert all of my MP4 files into WMVs so they'll be compatible with "Windows" (WMM). And I would guess that you too, John, have had to convert some of my MP4s into WMVs first, before you were able to use the files inside WMM, right?

BTW --- I'm going to forgive you (this time), John, for getting the name wrong of the best JFK assassination documentary ever produced. The proper title of David L. Wolper's stellar 1964 motion picture is, of course, "Four Days In November" (not "Four Days In Dallas"). 😉

BTW #2 --- Speaking of the "Four Days" Wolper film, here's something else that might be of some use to you, John —— A few years ago I culled various highlights from the film and put them on this webpage. The highlights include the "re-creations" which Wolper filmed with some of the witnesses (such as Buell Wesley Frazier, Linnie Mae Randle, and William Whaley).

The videos on that webpage are "Blogger" videos (instead of "Google Drive" uploads), but they can be downloaded if you know the "trick". The trick is: After pressing the Play button, right-click TWICE with your mouse cursor hovering over the video player. After the second "right-click", you should see a "Save Video As" option among the menu choices. Clicking "Save Video As" will allow you to download the video. It will be an MP4 download, however, not a WMV. But at least my "Blogger" videos can be downloaded. It's a method that works when using the Firefox browser anyway. I'm not sure about the success rate of this venture when utilizing other browsers. (It was by pure accident a couple of years ago that I stumbled across the above method for downloading a Blogger video. And I'm glad I did, because it's come in handy several times since then.)


JOHN McADAMS SAID:

I don't particularly like excessively complex and difficult-to-learn software when what I have to do is simple.

Mostly, I've just been using it to take your longer videos and cut out key segments to use in PowerPoint slides I use and class, and upload for the students to study.

Pretty much all the stuff I've edited so far has been in older formats. Especially, all the stuff you have uploaded is in formats that MovieMaker can handle.

MovieMaker outputs MP4, which is good because, if one puts something online, browsers now have native MP4 support. Instead of calling up Flash, a simple HTML command shows video.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Well then, John, we must be talking about two different video editors with the name "Movie Maker". Because all of the versions of Windows Movie Maker that I have ever used do not output MP4 files. WMM only renders and saves videos in Windows Media Video (.WMV) format.

But maybe you're using a newer version of WMM. I'm using Version 2.6.


JOHN McADAMS SAID:

I have version 16.4.3528.0331.

Dated: 2012.

I'm running it under Windows 8.1.

My copy does import MP4.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Ten-Four.
Roger.
And Wilco.

😁


RAMON F. HERRERA SAID:

I have made this public offer and will keep on repeating it:

I will upload ANYTHING provided/requested by the JFK community to my/your/our new video channel [which no longer exists].

[...]

Now, let's go in the David Von Pein issue....

I have made this public offer to David Von Pein and will keep on repeating it:

I will convert any photo from the DVP archive to 3D models. If the scene is in Dealey Plaza, the accuracy will be 3mm. This one seems like a perfect first candidate, taken seconds after the shooting:



It was taken from west of the triple underpass, with the kids waving and the 12:30 Hertz clock in the background. A 3D model/video can be done, with the car speeding.

-Ramon
JFK Numbers (and videos)


RAMON F. HERRERA LATER SAID:

So, David, I am confused. You are sending mixed signals. You tell me one thing in a private mail, then you say the opposite in public.

Are you a supporter of bringing your (flat earth) treasure trove to the wonderful world of 3D?

The least gesture we (the JFK Numbers team of 3D designers) can do is give you the privilege of selecting the first scene.

So, what do you say?

ps: Oh, I forgot something: do NOT select any photo where the presidential limo appears. Why? Because you will have to sign the petition, hopefully led by Pamela, to have the blueprints released to The People.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Ramon,

When have I ever stated "in public" that I was not in favor of any of your "JFK Numbers" projects (whatever they might be)? ~shrug~

If you want to create 3D models of some of the Dealey Plaza photographs, go right ahead. I'm all for it. Sounds like a cool idea to me. And if any of the photos on my websites will help you with any of your "3D modeling" projects, go ahead and use them (keeping in mind the fact that I own none of the copyrights on any of those photos)——which are the exact same things I told you in this November 25, 2018, e-mail:

"That would be great. I'm all for it. And if some of my photos (or videos) on my sites can help you in that endeavor, feel free to use them all you want. .... I'm all for it. I can't see any reason why I should be AGAINST such a project. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "the numerical parts of the case", but, my ignorance aside, if additional information concerning the events of 11/22/63 can be gleaned by the "best universities" in America (or abroad), then I'm certainly in favor of it. Good luck." -- 11/25/2018 E-Mail From DVP To Ramon Herrera


RAMON F. HERRERA SAID THIS.


REPLAY....
RAMON F. HERRERA SAID:

The least gesture we can do is give you the privilege of selecting the first scene. So, what do you say?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

How about this one below? A detailed 3D model of this 11/22/63 aerial photograph (with accuracy to within "3 millimeters", per Ramon Herrera's 4/22/2019 estimate) would be interesting to see:




ALLAN G. JOHNSON SAID:

That photo of Dealey Plaza cannot be of the afternoon on Nov. 22, 1963. There are no people, police, newsmedia on the streets that were there during the motorcade and after the shooting, just routine traffic.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

You're wrong about that, Allan. This picture was definitely taken on the afternoon of 11/22/63. Take note of the various Dallas police cars parked up on the sidewalk on the north side of Elm Street, which matches some of the other photos that were also taken on November 22nd.

BTW, that particular photograph of Dealey Plaza and its "November 22" caption can be found on page 350 of Richard Trask's outstanding 1994 book, "Pictures Of The Pain", where Trask also explains that the photo was part of a series of aerial shots taken "some time in mid-afternoon on that Friday" (Nov. 22nd) by a photographer named Jerry Cabluck.

David Von Pein
April 22-27, 2019

JFK ASSASSINATION ARGUMENTS (PART 1053)

RAMON F. HERRERA SAID:

[Quoting from Dr. John Lattimer's book, "Kennedy And Lincoln":]

"I wish to re-emphasize that none of our test objects in these experiments with melons and skulls ever jumped or fell off the stand AWAY from the shooter."
-- John K. Lattimer


RAMON HERRERA LATER SAID:

What I posted [HERE] is ALL the shootings to heads of people that I could find [on] YouTube. In every single one of them, the subjects behave as predicted by elementary physics (conservation of momentum).

If anybody can find ONE video that violates that elementary rule, please post it here.

We will be patiently waiting.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

[Also quoting Dr. Lattimer:]

"Our experiments verified that the backward movement of the President's head was compatible with his being struck from the rear, and that it was certainly not necessary to hit the head from the front in order to make the head move toward the gun." -- John K. Lattimer; Page 255 of "Kennedy And Lincoln"


RAMON HERRERA SAID:

So God has a special rule for Kennedy (perhaps for Catholics?) and the opposite for criminals and Muslims?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Exactly. :)

Let's see you debunk the photos and X-rays, which prove that nobody in Dealey Plaza hit John F. Kennedy in the front of the head with a bullet. Good luck, Ramon.




JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID:

Very nice job Ramon.

And the Alvarez farce should be exposed as often as possible.

It was a dishonest charade.

And Paul Hoch helped cover it up for decades.


PAT SPEER SAID ALL THIS.


GLENN NALL SAID:

This Jet Effect is a sham. Go shoot something, even something attached to something else, with a high velocity bullet. Then let's talk about this jet effect.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

OK, let's do that....

JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2012/01/debunking-jfk-conspiracy-myths

Another "fake" video, Glenn? ....




PAT SPEER SAID:

Really? You fell for that?

From chapter 16 at patspeer.com --- CLICK HERE.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

The Penn & Teller melon literally jumps backward off of the table. Yes, the table is a small table, but the melon definitely moved toward the gunman. And if a "jet effect" didn't cause that movement, what did?

The melon jumps off the table after being shot, moves BACKWARDS (toward the shooter), then (of course) falls off the table. But regardless of how small the table was, that hunk of fruit did move toward the gunman after it was struck with a Carcano rifle bullet. I see nothing phony or fraudulent about that melon test.

Plus, Dr. Lattimer filmed his skull tests too. And the skulls were propelled TOWARD the gunman as well. (And, no, the ladder did not cause the skulls to move backward, as many CTers like to use as a convenient excuse. That ladder doesn't even start to tip backward until well after the skulls have started their journey to the rear.)


PAT SPEER SAID:

You missed the point. The ladders tipped forwards. The forward momentum of the bullet slammed into the skulls, which then slammed into the ladders tipping them forward. The skulls then recoiled off the ladders and flew back toward the shooter. If the skulls were attached to the ladders, they would have fallen forward not back.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Absolute nonsense, Pat. Lattimer's test skulls were long gone off the ladder before there was any "recoil" (i.e., backward movement) of the ladder.


PAT SPEER SAID:

Let's try this again. The bullet never touches the ladders, and yet they tip forward. This proves that the forward momentum of the skull is being transferred into the ladders.

Think of it like shooting pool. The cue ball is the bullet. The cue ball strikes the 13 ball at an angle when it's an inch or so away from the 8 ball. The 13 ball then strikes the 8 ball. Upon striking the 8 ball, the 13 ball rolls backwards, but the 8 ball rolls forwards. Lattimer claimed that the backwards motion of the 13 ball replicated the movement of Kennedy, and proved the Jet Effect, but totally ignored that it had transferred its momentum into the 8 ball. It was a trick.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Like Glenn Nall [see this post], I'm a fairly decent pool player myself, and as far as I am aware, the only way to get a pool ball to move backwards (toward the pool player) is to utilize reverse english while striking the cue ball (which is something I became pretty good at doing in my younger days). The cue ball will then travel backwards (or a little left or right, depending on where the player strikes the cue ball).

But the OBJECT ball(s)--i.e., the balls the cue ball is hitting--will not travel backwards. Those balls always travel forward--away from the shooter/billiards player.

But, maybe Pat Speer thinks that John Lattimer had a special kind of Mannlicher-Carcano rifle---one that fired bullets with reverse english attached to them.

However, even if that scenario were possible, it's still not a good "pool" analogy. Because, as mentioned, from my experience as a pool player, it's only the CUE BALL--or in Pat's analogy, THE BULLET ITSELF--that would be subject to any REVERSAL of direction--not the "13 ball" or any of the "object" balls (or in Dr. Lattimer's experiments--the skulls).

What I'd really like to know is if Dr. Alfred Olivier's test skulls that he shot for his assassination tests at Edgewood Arsenal moved TOWARD the shooter after the skulls were shot with rifle bullets. I don't think that information ever came out in Olivier's Warren Commission testimony, mainly because the Commission wasn't concerned a single bit about the rear head snap exhibited by President Kennedy after he was shot. It was a complete non-issue to the Warren Commission (since they had conclusive proof via the autopsy report and the autopsy doctors that JFK had been hit in the head by just a single bullet, which entered from BEHIND). But it would still be nice to know which direction Dr. Olivier's test skulls traveled--forward or backward.

Prediction: Pat Speer will now change his "pool" analogy to this....

The bullet (in Dr. Lattimer's tests) becomes the cue stick.

The skull on the ladder becomes the cue ball.

And the ladder becomes the object ball which is being struck by the cue ball (skull).

But that's still a bit of a stretch for the conspiracy theorists, unless they can invent a way for the cue stick (the bullet) to impart reverse english onto the cue ball (the skull).

Let's chalk up and play a game or two.


PAT SPEER SAID:

[Larry] Sturdivan mentioned this in his HSCA testimony, as I recall. All the skulls went forward in the direction of the bullet.


RAMON F. HERRERA SAID:

Pat:

That makes a heck of a lot of sense. I am not talking about the 2 directions being the same, which is simply a FACT under any scenario (*). I am referring to...

1.) The blatant lies by Lattimer et al.

2.) The sincerity by Sturdivan.

Simply put, in 1964 we believed in Santa Claus, not quite in the late 1970s.

(*) Custom rigged cantaloupes and fancy billiard shots excluded. Last time I checked, the head of our president qualified for neither category.


RAMON F. HERRERA ALSO SAID:

Direction of the Fatal Shot and the Jet Effect
by Stewart Galanor:

http://JFKLancer.com/galanor/jet_effect

[Quoting from above article:]

"The Warren Commission had a scientist Larry Sturdivan at the Aberdeen Proving Grounds shoot ten skulls with the Mannlicher-Carcano. All ten skulls moved away from the rifle and moved in the direction of the bullet. The results of this test were suppressed and were not revealed until fifteen years later during the HSCA investigation. (1HSCA404)" -- Stewart Galanor


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Thank you, Pat and Ramon, for the information about Larry Sturdivan's HSCA testimony.

Allow me to add the following quotes from Sturdivan's book, "The JFK Myths":


"The calculations show that no bullet of reasonable size can possibly throw a person in any direction. So, if the laws of physics prove that a bullet could not have "thrown" him [JFK], why did he move backward into the car seat just after the shot that killed him?

[...]

The question is: Did the gunshot produce enough force in expelling the material from Kennedy's head to throw his body backward into the limousine? Based on the high-speed movies of the skull shot simulations at the Biophysics Laboratory, the answer is no.

[...]

Dr. John Lattimer conducted some skull shots that resembled the Biophysics Division's simulations, but for which the skulls were filled with animal brain tissue. In his shots, all skulls fell back from the table [actually a ladder] in the direction of the shooter. Evidently, the lack of a jet effect from the stiff gelatin in the Biophysics Lab's simulation was a bit misleading and there was enough of a jet effect to move Kennedy's head back after its forward surge."

-- Larry M. Sturdivan; Pages 162 and 164 of "The JFK Myths: A Scientific Investigation Of The Kennedy Assassination" (©2005)


DAVID VON PEIN ALSO SAID:

BTW, the Edgewood Arsenal "Wound Ballistics Of 6.5-mm. Mannlicher-Carcano Ammunition" report is very interesting reading too. More conspiracy theorists should look at it. Here it is:

http://MaryFerrell.org/documentID=62296

Every single test performed between April 1964 and October 1964 by Dr. Olivier and Dr. Dziemian at Edgewood Arsenal is consistent with the Warren Commission's ultimate conclusions. For example:

Per the Edgewood Arsenal ballistics tests with Lee Harvey Oswald's rifle, that exact rifle was capable of causing all of the wounds that were inflicted on President Kennedy and Governor Connally in Dallas on November 22, 1963.

Quoting from the Edgewood report:

"Experiments were performed with the 6.5-mm Mannlicher-Carcano assassination rifle, serial no. C2766, and 6.5-mm Western Cartridge Company, lot WCC 6000, Mannlicher-Carcano ball ammunition to reproduce the conditions occurring at the time of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy on 22 November 1963. The results indicated that the wounds sustained by the President and by Governor Connally, including the massive head wound of the President, could be produced by the above type of bullet and rifle."

----------------------

And Dr. Lattimer's experiments produced results very similar to those of Olivier's 1964 tests.

Quoting Lattimer:

"Combinations of human skull tops and melons were tested, and, again, all fell backward off the stand toward the shooter. No melon or skull combination ever fell AWAY from the shooter. Human skulls were then packed with solid melon contents and taped and sewed tightly together with strong tape and thread to simulate the scalp. We fired into these at the same point and at the same angle as the President was struck. The skull wounds produced were strikingly similar to Kennedy's [see illustration from Lattimer's book below]. Again, the skulls fell or jumped off the stand toward the shooter, and large fragments of the top of the skulls flew upward and forward for distances of forty feet or more, just as fragments of Kennedy's skull can be seen to have done in frames 313 through 318 of the Zapruder movie."

-- John K. Lattimer; Page 251 of "Kennedy And Lincoln: Medical And Ballistic Comparisons Of Their Assassinations" (©1980)


David Von Pein
October 18-21, 2015

JFK ASSASSINATION ARGUMENTS (PART 1175)

RAMON F. HERRERA SAID:

Just when we thought that the LNs were an extinguishing species...

I was under the impression that the few LNs left are the McAdams groupies.

In the Education Forum, we have one: David Von Pein (well, he participates in all forums).

In JFK Facts, they fired Photon. Jean Davison is a frequent poster. McAdams is complaining that Jeff Morley won't let him comment. Which is ironic since Prof. McAdams banned me for years (now he says he never did) and even the most loyal among his clientele (Tony Marsh) call him "Censor in Chief".


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

There are a lot of people who think Lee Oswald acted alone on 11/22/63. And I hear from many of those people regularly by e-mail and via the comments I get on a daily basis on my YouTube videos. I hear from more CTers than I do LNers, that's true enough. But I get comments from many Lone Assassin believers too. And I always get a chuckle out of the conspiracy theorists who seem to believe there are just a handful of "LNers" left on the entire planet. [LOL]

Along those same lines of thought, here's a brief exchange I had with Jon G. Tidd at The Education Forum in July of 2015:

-------------------------

JON G. TIDD SAID:

DVP,

Either you are a surrogate for the U.S. Government. Or you speak the same as the government.

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Jon,

I agree with the Government's conclusions about Oswald's guilt if that's what you mean. But....so what? Millions of people agree with the Government's "Oswald Did It" conclusion. I'm just one of them.

Although, to hear Jim DiEugenio tell it, it would seem as if the "LN" club consisted of just a very few people on the whole planet --- myself, the late Vince Bugliosi, Tom Hanks, and Gerald Posner....and that's about it. But there are a lot of other people in the world who think Oswald killed JFK (and probably did it alone). Those people just don't hang out on JFK Internet forums every day of their lives.

-------------------------


RAMON F. HERRERA SAID:

[Duncan MacRae's JFK Assassination Forum]...is replete with LNs. You would not believe how ridiculous they are! Get this: they have sayings by Dale Myers in their signature. Talk about Madrassas and Bible thumping.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Ramon,

As incredible as it might be for you and other CTers to contemplate, there ARE some people in this world—myself included—who don't think of Dale K. Myers as a lying charlatan and a disinformation agent....

JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/dale-myers-and-sbt.html

DVP-Potpourri.blogspot.com/2010/06/dale-myers.html

With--Malice.blogspot.com


David Von Pein
September 6, 2016

DAVID VON PEIN VS. VARIOUS CONSPIRACY THEORISTS

DVP vs. DAVID LIFTON

DVP vs. JAMES DiEUGENIO

DVP vs. VINCE PALAMARA

DVP vs. DOUG HORNE

DVP vs. JAMES FETZER

DVP vs. JUDYTH VARY BAKER

DVP vs. PAT SPEER

DVP vs. ROBERT HARRIS

DVP vs. ANTHONY MARSH

DVP vs. GREG PARKER

DVP vs. GARY AGUILAR

DVP vs. JAMES R. GORDON

DVP vs. WILLIAM KELLY

DVP vs. JOSEPH McBRIDE

DVP vs. GIL JESUS

DVP vs. BARB JUNKKARINEN

DVP vs. LEE FARLEY

DVP vs. PAMELA BROWN

DVP vs. ORLANDO MARTIN

DVP vs. DON JEFFRIES

DVP vs. RAY MITCHAM

DVP vs. CLIFF VARNELL

DVP vs. COLIN CROW

DVP vs. WILLY WHITTEN

DVP vs. JIM HARGROVE

DVP vs. MARTIN HAY

DVP vs. BEN HOLMES

DVP vs. DAVID JOSEPHS

DVP vs. RAMON F. HERRERA

DVP vs. BART KAMP

DVP vs. HERBERT BLENNER

DVP vs. RON ECKER

DVP vs. GARRY PUFFER

DVP vs. SANDY LARSEN

DVP vs. THOMAS H. PURVIS

DVP vs. JON G. TIDD

DVP vs. DONALD WILLIS

DVP vs. STEVE THOMAS

DVP vs. GLENN NALL

DVP vs. TOM SCULLY

DVP vs. RICH DELLAROSA

DVP vs. SEAN MURPHY

DVP vs. MARTIN WEIDMANN

DVP vs. WALT CAKEBREAD

DVP vs. TOM ROSSLEY

DVP vs. CORY SANTOS

DVP vs. ALAN FORD

DVP vs. BOB PRUDHOMME

DVP vs. TONY FRATINI

DVP vs. DENNY ZARTMAN

DVP vs. JOHN IACOLETTI

DVP vs. KENNETH DREW

DVP vs. PAUL JOLLIFFE

DVP vs. RICH POPE

DVP vs. RON BULMAN

DVP vs. GREG DOUDNA

DVP vs. ROBERT CAPRIO

DVP vs. DAVID HEALY

DVP vs. MICHAEL CLARK

DVP vs. JOHN BARBOUR

DVP vs. RALPH CINQUE

DVP vs. EDUCATION FORUM


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ALSO SEE:

JFK ASSASSINATION ARGUMENTS (PART 904)

JEFFERSON MORLEY SAID:

Fact check:

Did Richard Nixon say the Warren Commission report was a ‘hoax?’

No. Jean Davison sets the record straight on this Internet legend [in
this comment made by Jean at Morley's "JFK Facts" website on
February 15, 2015].

You’ll find the alleged cited occasionally in online JFK debates:

“It was the greatest hoax that has ever been perpetuated.”

President Richard M. Nixon supposedly said this while discussing the Warren Commission on May 15, 1972, the day presidential candidate George Wallace was shot.

In fact, Rex Bradford has noted, this “quote” was the result of a “grave error” on the part of BBC writer Kevin Anderson. According to a transcript on the CNN website, in describing “the greatest hoax that has ever been perpetrated,” Nixon was referring to the idea that the JFK murder was attributable to the John Birch Society.

Even casual students of the assassination will note that the Warren Commission did not reach such a conclusion, instead declaring that Oswald acted alone. Bradford apologized on his site, History Matters, for passing along the BBC’s mistake. The CNN transcript is still online.

“Keep relying on secondary sources, folks, and you’ll learn lots of things that aren’t true,” Davision observes.


JEAN DAVISON'S COMPLETE POST OF 2/15/2015:

Willy,

Thanks for posting [HERE] yet another JFK myth — Nixon supposedly saying, “Oswald did it by himself scenario is the greatest hoax that has ever been perpetuated.”

You’ll find it on the quote page at History Matters, along with a correction:

QUOTE:

“It was the greatest hoax that has ever been perpetuated.” — President Richard M. Nixon, discussing the Warren Commission on May 15, 1972, the day presidential candidate George Wallace was shot.

CORRECTION: This quote appears to have been a grave error on the part of BBC writer Kevin Anderson. According to a transcript on the CNN website, in describing “the greatest hoax that has ever been perpetrated” Nixon was referring to the idea that the JFK murder was attributable to the John Birch Society. Even casual students of the assassination will note that the Warren Commission did not reach such a conclusion, instead declaring that Oswald acted alone. My apologies for passing along the BBC’s bizarre mistake.

UNQUOTE

http://www.history-matters.com/siteguide/siteguide_archivequotes.htm

The CNN transcript is still online:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0202/28/ip.00.html

Keep relying on secondary sources, folks, and you’ll learn lots of things that aren’t true.


RAMON F. HERRERA SAID:

RICHARD NIXON, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: "Why don’t we play the game a bit smarter for a change. They pinned the assassination of Kennedy on the right wing, the Birchers. It was done by a Communist and it was the greatest hoax that has ever been perpetuated. And I respectfully suggest, can’t we pin this on one of theirs?”

Too bad nobody asked President Nixon to elaborate and clarify, because that statement has two opposite logical interpretations.

One of them is “Since it was the greatest hoax ever, and they could get away with blaming a patsy, why can’t we be smart and do something equivalent? Hey, it has been done!”

Nixon was clearly skipping words, inferring, talking to people who did not need every one of them.

[...]

Too bad we don’t have a psychiatrist or expert on communication in the audience, one who could settle this.

That is a general problem in this matter, THE most important vacuum: We need real, world-class experts in Physics and many other matters. The universities have been restrained from entering the investigation or have decided to abstain themselves.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

The key to that Nixon comment is this:

“IT WAS DONE BY A COMMUNIST.”

Now, does anyone here think Nixon REALLY meant to say: “Oswald was innocent, and the Warren Commission FRAMED a Communist”?

Nixon clearly was implying that he thought Oswald was GUILTY, not a patsy.


WILLY WHITTEN SAID:

In a word ‘Yes’, that is exactly what I think.

It goes beyond even that David, the Warren Commission framed someone set-up to be a Communist, as a mole to infiltrate the anti-Castro Cuban exiles and the intelligence group organizing the exiles.


BOB PRUDHOMME SAID:

Uh, no, Dave, that’s not what Nixon said at all.

“It was done by a Communist and it was the greatest hoax that has ever been perpetuated.”


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Beautiful, Bob.

Leave it to the JFK conspiracy theorists to mangle yet another topic.

Only in a CTer’s mind could these plain-as-day words…..

“IT WAS DONE BY A COMMUNIST” ….

…..somehow indicate that Nixon REALLY meant that it WASN’T done by that Communist (with the “Communist” being Lee Harvey Oswald, of course).

It couldn’t be more obvious that Nixon was saying in that “hoax” quote that he thought Oswald (the “Communist”) was guilty of assassinating President Kennedy.


BOB PRUDHOMME SAID:

Well, Dave, I don’t know where you went to school but, where I went to school, using “it” twice in the same sentence usually means you are discussing one topic. So, “It was done by a Communist and it was the greatest hoax that has ever been perpetuated” kinda makes me think ol’ Tricky Dick is referring to the assassination when he says “it”.

Now, as no one I know has ever heard of the John Birch Society being blamed for JFK’s assassination, I would say THAT hardly qualifies as the “greatest hoax ever perpetuated”.

Maybe, with you being so wise, you can explain to all of us just what this hoax was.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Bob,

The “hoax” Nixon is referring to in his 1972 quote is quite obvious, in my opinion. It’s this one….

“They pinned the assassination of Kennedy on the right wing, the Birchers.”

So, Nixon apparently doesn’t agree with you at all, Bob. Nixon seems to feel that the unnamed “they” have “pinned the assassination of Kennedy on the Birchers”.

Who the “they” is that Mr. Nixon was referring to, I have no idea. But he obviously was of the opinion that some “they” was attempting to blame the “Birchers” for JFK’s murder.


GERRY SIMONE SAID:

Puh-lease David. He admits later that ‘Texas’ murdered JFK.

The phrase “It was done by a Communist” is emphasizing metaphorically, that the assassination was blamed on a left-winger.

Nixon did not specifically say that LHO killed JFK.

This is in the context of his later comment about pinning it on them (Liberals).


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

I disagree, Gerry. I think Nixon is clearly stating his belief that “IT WAS DONE BY A COMMUNIST [meaning: Oswald]”.

If you disagree, fine. But that’s the way I interpret that quote.

David Von Pein
February 2015