JFK ASSASSINATION ARGUMENTS (PART 571)

ROBERT HARRIS SAID:

Even you must know about Kellerman's "flurry of shells" that came into the car, at exactly the instant that he was ducking and shielding his ear with his right hand.

Don't tell me this is my [expletive] imagination.

The problem here is not imagination, it is stonewall denial.


JOHN CORBETT SAID:

If a flurry of shells was coming into the car, why didn't they find a flurry of bullets?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Roy Kellerman's "flurry of shells [came] into the car" testimony can easily be reconciled within the "lone assassin" scenario: Kellerman merely heard the effects of the bullet that hit President Kennedy in the head (a bullet that was fired, of course, from the 6th Floor of the TSBD by Lee Oswald).

Kellerman undoubtedly heard the two bullet fragments [CE567 and CE569] striking the chrome topping and the windshield of the limousine. Kellerman was sitting right next to this activity in the front of the car, and to him it sounded like a "flurry of shells" or "flurry of shots" coming into the car. (Kellerman said both of those things--"flurry of shells" and "flurry of shots"--during his Warren Commission testimony.)

It makes total sense that Kellerman would, indeed, have possibly thought a "flurry of shells" or a "flurry of shots" (i.e., more than one "shell" or "shot") came "into the car".

What would ANY of us have thought if we had heard what Roy Kellerman heard while sitting right next to the places where bullet fragments were clanking against the front parts of the automobile during the period of time when bullets were flying around Dealey Plaza?

Would you have thought the clanking of bullets in the front part of the car was merely the result of bullet FRAGMENTS striking the automobile?

Or would you possibly have thought that multiple ADDITIONAL bullets (or "shells") were being fired into the car?

If it were me, I think I'd probably be inclined to think the latter.


Footnote:

Secret Service Agent Roy H. Kellerman is an excellent "lone gunman" type of witness overall, btw.

Naturally, the conspiracy clowns of the world want to twist and mangle Kellerman's words to fit their preconceived ideas of a multi-gun conspiracy. And the kooks try to do the exact same thing with other assassination witnesses as well, with Lee Bowers being a good example.

Bowers is actually a very good "lone assassin" witness overall, despite the conspiracy theorists' constant attempts to turn him into a witness who saw somebody murdering the President from the Grassy Knoll.

David Von Pein
June 2, 2009

JFK ASSASSINATION ARGUMENTS (PART 572)

ROBERT HARRIS SAID:

Recently, you suggested that when Roy Kellerman heard a "flurry of shells" come into the car, that he was referring to the sound of bullet fragments from the head explosion striking the windshield. Are you suggesting that the sound of a fragment glancing off the glass is so similar to that of a gunshot, that Mr. Kellerman was fooled?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Of course that's what I am suggesting. Exactly that.

From the totality of evidence that tells any reasonable person that ONLY THREE GUNSHOTS WERE FIRED in Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63, it's quite obvious that Mr. Kellerman's "flurry of shells" and/or "flurry of shots" were the sounds of the head-shot bullet fragments striking the interior portions of the limousine (the windshield and the metal/chrome near the windshield).

Are you, Robert Harris, suggesting that the sounds of bullet fragments striking those objects RIGHT NEXT TO KELLERMAN IN THE CAR made NO audible sound whatsoever?

Plus:

There's the fact that Secret Service Agent Kellerman is a witness who is on record (at least twice) as having said he heard precisely THREE shots fired in Dealey Plaza. No more. No less. Let's have a look:

"We were still traveling at the normal rate of speed of from 12 to 15 miles per hour when I heard a noise, similar to a firecracker, exploding in the area to the rear of the car, about 12:30 PM. Immediately I heard what I firmly believe was the President's voice, 'My God, I'm hit!'

I turned around to find out what happened when two additional shots rang out, and the President slumped into Mrs. Kennedy's lap and Governor Connally fell to Mrs. Connally's lap. I heard Mrs. Kennedy shout, 'What are they doing to you?'" -- From Roy Kellerman's 11/29/63 Secret Service Report

--------------------

Via Kellerman's Warren Commission testimony:

ARLEN SPECTER -- "You have drawn a conclusion, in effect, by saying that there were four wounds for the President and three wounds for the Governor; and from that, you say there must have been more than three shots in your opinion or your view. But my question is: Do you have any current recollection of having heard more than three shots?"

ROY H. KELLERMAN -- "No, I don't. I will have to say no."

SENATOR JOHN SHERMAN COOPER -- "Has that been your recollection from the very time of the shooting?"

MR. KELLERMAN -- "No, sir. It has been my opinion."

--------------------

Addendum:

Mr. Kellerman is entirely wrong about hearing JFK say "My God, I am hit" after being struck by one of Lee Oswald's bullets, but that's another discussion entirely.

But, common sense along with the known physical damage that was done to the front portions of the limousine during the assassination (plus the above "three shots" comments made by Kellerman himself, plus the chart below) can easily solve Roy H. Kellerman's "flurry" testimony.




David Von Pein
June 4, 2009

JFK ASSASSINATION ARGUMENTS (PART 30)

A CONSPIRACY THEORIST SAID:

>>> "Too bad you can't respond to Kellerman say[ing] there was a flurry of bullets. .... Kellerman said JFK was wounded four times..." <<<


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

ARLEN SPECTER. Mr. Kellerman, you said earlier that there were at least
two additional shots. Is there any area in your mind or possibility,
as you recollect that situation, that there could have been more than
two shots, or are you able to say with any certainty?

ROY KELLERMAN. I am going to say that I have, from the firecracker
report and the two other shots that I know, those were three shots.
But, Mr. Specter, if President Kennedy had from all reports four
wounds, Governor Connally three, there have got to be more than three
shots, gentlemen. .... President Kennedy had four wounds, two in the
head and shoulder and the neck. Governor Connally, from our reports,
had three. There have got to be more than three shots. ....

Mr. SPECTER. You have drawn a conclusion, in effect, by saying that
there were four wounds for the President and three wounds for the
Governor; and from that, you say there must have been more than three
shots in your opinion or your view. But my question is: Do you have
any current recollection of having heard more than three shots?

Mr. KELLERMAN. No, I don't. I will have to say no.

Senator COOPER. Has that been your recollection from the very time of
the shooting?

Mr. KELLERMAN. No, sir; it has been my opinion.

Senator COOPER. Not your opinion, but from the time of the shooting
you think then that you heard only three shots, or did you--

Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes.

Senator COOPER. Or did you ever think that you heard more than three?

Mr. KELLERMAN. No, sir; I can't say that, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, you referred to four wounds, Mr. Kellerman,
realizing, of course, your characterization is only lay opinion.

Mr. KELLERMAN. Very true.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/kellerma.htm

~~~~~~~~

So, let's go back and evaluate Kellerman's testimony a little bit more:

Via the totality of Kellerman's words, he said he heard a total of
"three shots" (the "flurry" notwithstanding).

And Kellerman's opinion (repeated below) regarding the number of
gunshots (bullets) that in his opinion MUST have caused all of these
various wounds on the two victims (with Kellerman saying that more
than 3 shots HAD to have been fired in order to cause that many wounds
in 2 victims) has been proven to be factually incorrect, because tests
have positively shown that just TWO bullets could have caused all of
the wounds suffered by John F. Kennedy and John B. Connally:

"President Kennedy had four wounds, two in the head and shoulder and the neck. Governor Connally, from our reports, had three. There have got to be more than three shots."

Therefore, other than the "flurry" comment, Roy Kellerman isn't a bad
witness for the "Lone Assassin" side at all.


>>> "And JFK was missing the right back of his head." <<<

Then where is that huge hole in the back of his head? Where? No autopsy
photo or X-ray shows a large wound in the BACK of the President's head
(including the picture that centers on the hole in JFK's upper back, which
is a photo that I do not believe has any of the doctors HOLDING ON TO
KENNEDY'S SCALP, which is occurring in the color photo of Kennedy's
head below):






And where's that "BOH hole" mentioned within the text of the autopsy
report? Where?



You conspiracy kooks have no choice but to believe in MULTIPLE
extraordinary things:

If you want to believe that there was really a large hole in the back
part of John Kennedy's head, and if you want to believe that JFK was
shot in the head from the FRONT instead of from BEHIND (which are
things that all of you kooks DO, of course, want to believe)....then
you've got no choice but to think that ALL THREE autopsy doctors lied
many different times, including the whopper of a lie they must have
told, per you kooks, in the official autopsy report, when they said
this:

"It is our opinion that the deceased died as a result of two perforating gunshot wounds. .... The projectiles were fired from a point behind and somewhat above the level of the deceased."

And then you kooks must also think that Dr. Humes continued the lie
four years later when he said this to Dan Rather and a CBS-TV audience
of millions in 1967:

DR. JAMES J. HUMES -- "There was only one entrance wound in the head;
yes, sir."

DAN RATHER -- "And that was where?"

DR. HUMES -- "That was posterior, about two-and-a-half centimeters to
the right of the mid-line posteriorly."

DAN RATHER -- "And the exit wound?"

DR. HUMES -- "And the exit wound was a large, irregular wound to the
front and right side of the President's head."

DAN RATHER -- "Now can you be absolutely certain that the wound you
describe as the entry wound was in FACT that?"

DR. HUMES -- "Yes, indeed, we can. Very precisely and
incontrovertibly. The missile traversed the skin and then traversed
the bony skull....and as it passed through the skull it produced a
characteristic coning or bevelling effect on the inner aspect of the
skull. Which is scientific evidence that the wound was made from
behind and passed forward through the President's skull."

DAN RATHER -- "This is very important....you say there's scientific
evidence....is it conclusive scientific evidence?"

DR. HUMES -- "Yes, sir; it is."

DAN RATHER -- "Is there any doubt that the wound at the back of the
President's head was the entry wound?"

DR. HUMES -- "There is absolutely no doubt, sir."

"A CBS News Inquiry: The Warren Report"

--------------------------

And then, too, the JFK conspiracy-loving kooks of the universe must
also believe that the autopsy photos AND the X-rays of President
Kennedy's head (which depict no large 'BOH' wound at all) are fakes,
despite the HSCA saying this in 1978:

"To summarize, the skull and torso radiographs taken at autopsy match the available ante mortem films of the President in such a wealth of intricate morphological detail that there can be no reasonable doubt that they are in fact X-rays of John F. Kennedy, and no other person. .... The experts concluded that the autopsy photographs and X-rays were authentic and unaltered, confirming the observations of the autopsy personnel and providing additional support for the conclusions of the medical consultants." -- HSCA Report; Volume VII

I guess the kooks must also think that this entire lengthy HSCA report
regarding the autopsy pictures/X-rays is nothing but a pile of crap, right?

That's a lot of "extraordinary" stuff to believe, don't you think?
E.G.: Fake official autopsy photographs, fake X-rays, an autopsy
report which is nothing but a total pack of lies with respect to the
key issues that need to be determined via JFK's autopsy (i.e., where
were the wounds on the body and which wounds were entry wounds
and which were exit wounds), a batch of autopsy doctors who told
one lie after another about the President's wounds, and a batch of
no-good, useless investigators for both the Warren Commission and
the HSCA.

Yeah....believing in all of the above extraordinary things (one on top
of the other) is a lot more reasonable than to think that a couple of
Secret Service agents (in the heat of a traumatic moment) got a few
things wrong on November 22nd.

But to an eager conspiracy theorist worth his salt, it's always best
to gobble up that chaff, while allowing every scrap of wheat to roll
right on by.

David Von Pein
November 1, 2007

JFK ASSASSINATION ARGUMENTS (PART 1297)

RICH POPE SAID:

Here's an idea I thought of. .... What if someone wrote a book from Lee Harvey Oswald's point of view? As if he's telling the story from childhood up until his death? It would be historical fiction by necessity, but if there's enough fact included in the book and if it's told in just the right way, it might be interesting to people.

So, does anyone have a book (biography) they would recommend about LHO that would help me in this? Or if you think it's a stupid idea, warn me off (but tell me why) so I don't waste any time and money.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

As you would probably expect, I would recommend the 276-page "Lee Harvey Oswald" chapter that can be found in Vincent Bugliosi's mammoth 2007 book "Reclaiming History: The Assassination Of President John F. Kennedy". A few of my comments and some excerpts from that excellent chapter can be found here:

ReclaimingHistory.blogspot.com/Chapter 5 ("Lee Harvey Oswald")


RICH POPE SAID:

David,

Thank you. I just bought it on Amazon.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Good man. :)

And make sure you don't overlook the endnotes on the CD-ROM disc attached to the back cover of the book. And if the CD isn't included, send it back and get a copy with the CD disc attached. Because the CD's endnotes are very important. There's lots of good information contained in those 1,000+ pages.

David Von Pein
January 6-7, 2019


================================

FRANCOIS CARLIER SAID:

Hello everybody,

I have a question regarding this video:



When exactly was it filmed? What exact date? I have read conflicting articles and sources in books or on the Internet. Sometimes researchers just write "August 1963".

My question is: do you agree that the camera operator was Mike Lala, from WDSU? And was is August 21 or August 12? (If I am not mistaken -- I might be -- Posner says it is August 12 and Martin Shackelford says it is August 21.)

Thanks in advance to those who can provide solid and acurate answers.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Lee Harvey Oswald's WDSU-TV interview in New Orleans definitely occurred just after his radio debate with Bringuier and Butler on Wednesday, August 21, 1963. (Confirmed via the documents shown below.)


CLICK TO ENLARGE:


Page 175 of Warren Commission Volume #11 can be found HERE.


FRANCOIS CARLIER SAID:

Thank you very much, David.

However, I own Vincent Bugliosi's book, so I suppose that what you are saying publicly here is that I should have looked up the information myself...😉


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Well, Francois, my #1 Rule of Thumb is to always go to "Reclaiming History" first whenever I want to look up any information relating to the JFK case. And about 95% of the time, I'll find something in that book on the sub-topic I'm searching for.

David Von Pein
January 5-6, 2019


================================

RON BULMAN SAID:

As RFK approached, Sirhan stepped off the tray cart toward the tables on the right and began firing at RFK around another man from 3-6' away (blanks?). Another man, similary dressed, crouching on the table beside and behind him, began firing to RFK's right, hitting four people. Upon this signal, Security guard Thane Cesar from Ace Security, leading him by his right hand with his left, shot RFK three times in the chest with [his] right. At the same time, a man hiding between the ice machine and the wall sticking out behind it behind the kneeling officer in this picture, stepped out and shot RFK behind his right ear. Possibly twice.


CLICK TO ENLARGE:


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Oh, brother. What an imagination. Just like with the JFK case, CTers always go "over the top" with their fantastic "multi-gunmen" conspiracy theories in the RFK assassination as well. It never ends. Just incredible.

David Von Pein
January 6, 2019


================================

GEOFF HEINRICKS SAID:

Kellerman's "flurry" has always been a good piece of honest testimony, from a guy that was out of his depth...if not more...that day, but knew the tools of his trade. I'd say that a flurry - given the wounds, scrubbed misses and ricochets, and the fact there HAD to be success - had to be at least a dozen shots, theatrical 'heard' ones and suppressed ones.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

A much more reasonable explanation for Roy Kellerman's "flurry" testimony is....

http://jfk-archives/Roy Kellerman's "Flurry"

My explanation is certainly far and away more reasonable and sensible than believing, as Geoff Heinricks does, that there were "at least a dozen shots" fired in Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63.

Any theory that incorporates "at least a dozen shots" is just plain laughable.


RICH POPE SAID:

Let me ask this...were the shots that hit Connally meant for JFK?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Only one shot hit Connally, and that shot hit JFK first (of course).

So the answer to your inquiry is, of course....Yes.


GEOFF HEINRICKS SAID:

My father at least had interview time with Kellerman on tape, and that probably gives me at least as much authority as DVP in interpreting what a JFK Dealey 'flurry' might be.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Did Kellerman tell your dad that he heard more than 3 shots? If so, that would be quite a switch from what he told the Warren Commission....

ARLEN SPECTER -- "Do you have any current recollection of having heard more than three shots?"

ROY H. KELLERMAN -- "No, I don't. I will have to say no."


RICH POPE SAID:

LBJ ducked-down prior to ANY shots being fired.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

That's yet another myth that CTers never get tired of repeating.


RICH POPE SAID:

Is there any agreement about how many shots were fired at JFK?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

http://jfk-archives/Dealey Plaza Earwitnesses








Source Links: HERE and HERE.


ROBERT CARD SAID:

Dallas motorcycle cop James Chaney was not questioned by the FBI, or called before the WC. Chaney was the closest law enforcement officer to JFK at the time of the shooting. He was questioned by the FBI about his meeting with Jack Ruby on Nov 23, but nothing about the shooting. He eventually was questioned in 1975. Being that Chaney had an excellent view of the victim, and he was law enforcement, why do you think Chaney was never questioned or called before the WC?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

I can't answer that question. Nor can you.

But if you think the reason was because Chaney would have testified to things the Warren Commission just didn't want to hear, that reason is just so silly, since the Commission called MANY other witnesses who testified to things that could lead to a conclusion of "conspiracy". For example, the witnesses I mentioned in this 2014 exchange with conspiracy theorist Ray Mitcham....

RAY MITCHAM SAID: "I can see why the Warren Commission didn't want them [Bill and Gayle Newman] to be interviewed."

DVP SAID: "Yeah, right Ray. They avoided the Newmans, but had no problem publishing the testimony of Sam Holland, Mark Lane, Jean Hill, Jack Dougherty, Victoria Adams, Clint Hill, Marguerite Oswald, and several other "conspiracy" type witnesses. But they were just scared to death of Bill and Gayle Newman, huh?"


RICH POPE SAID:

When single-bullet theory supporters claim that most people in Dealey Plaza heard three shots and that they came from the Book Depository, they're including witnesses such as JFK's two closest aides, Dave Powers and Kenny O'Donnell, both riding in the limousine behind JFK's, who, at first testified that two shots came from the right front of the motorcade--the area of the "grassy knoll" with its picket fence, but later admitted they were pressured to change their testimony by the FBI.

Author Henry Hunt discovered in 1986 that at least 60 witnesses claimed the FBI altered what they had reported. In other words, the FBI just changed reported testimony just to make their single-bullet theory work. Many more such claims have emerged since then and this has been well documented.

So these silly graphs posted by David have ZERO value. There's a difference between misinformation and disinformation. David practices the art of disinformation.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

You need to look at this underlying data that John McAdams has relied on to arrive at the figures seen in his pie charts.

McAdams doesn't include Dave Powers as a "Depository" earwitness at all. McAdams has Powers in the "Not Sure" category.

And, yes, McAdams does list Ken O'Donnell in the "TSBD" category, but I think it's interesting to note that among the other authors and researchers that McAdams has listed in his comparison chart above (two of which are noted CTers), only one of those researchers lists O'Donnell as a "Knoll" earwitness. Even long-time veteran conspiracy advocate Josiah Thompson said that O'Donnell heard the shots come from his "Right Rear".

Also....

I just noticed that John McAdams has both Bill Newman and Gayle Newman listed as "Knoll" witnesses under the "McAdams" column on his "Earwitness Tabulation" page, which I don't think is correct at all (particularly when it comes to Bill Newman's statements specifically). In my opinion, Bill Newman shouldn't be categorized as either a "Knoll" witness or a "TSBD" witness. CLICK HERE to see why I say that.


ROY WIESELQUIST SAID:

How many shots do you HEAR, David? That's one of the PHONY effects of firing in fusillades. Which was a big part of the plan all along. Any number of shots will sound like ONE to the EARwitnesses. And that doesn't even get into muffled shots. But if someone SAYS he didn't HEAR a shot, that means it didn't exist, right? Even though there's all kinds of OTHER physical evidence known by the senses.

Next time Von Pein brings up how many shots witnesses SAID they HEARD, here are a few alternative rejoinders:

-- David, how many shots did they DREAM they SAW?

-- DVP, how many shots did they THINK they SMELLED?

-- Herr Von Pein, how many shots did they FEEL they TASTED?

-- Monsieur VP, how many shots did they GUESS they FELT?

When there's so much physical evidence for all kinds of shots, yeah, let's divert from that with a phony ONE aspect. These folks, all happy at a parade, the last thing they ever expected... but that's the only admissible evidence?! No, that's such a minor part of the evidence that it is almost not evidence.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Ahhh, what a perfect excuse for conspiracy theorists!! They theorize that there was a series of perfectly synchronized rifle shots in Dealey Plaza, masking the sound of many of the blasts. And, remember, there were "at least a dozen shots", per Geoff Heinricks' analysis. And, somehow, all those shots were whittled down to just THREE audible shots being heard by the vast majority of witnesses in the Plaza. That was some fantastic job of coordination on the part of those highly-skilled gunmen, wasn't it?

And it's just a coincidence, I guess, that exactly THREE shell casings were found on the sixth floor of the TSBD, eh? (All planted, I suppose.)

And I suppose it's also just a coincidence that the Zapruder Film shows ONLY the right-frontal portion of JFK's head exploding, with NO wound whatsoever visible in the right-rear of his head--even though, according to almost all CTers, that right-rear part of his head was blasted out by the gunshot fired by one of those stealth-like gunmen situated on the Grassy Knoll. And there's not even a hint of redness in the right-rear of Kennedy's head in the Z-Film either. The right-rear of his head is totally injury-free. (Probably just a fake film with a "black patch" inserted over the real wound, right?)

~sigh~

David Von Pein
January 6-7, 2019 [This forum link is no longer available.]

JFK ASSASSINATION ARGUMENTS (PART 210)

PATRICK SPEER SAID:

>>> "Dr. Clark, who declared Kennedy's death, believed Kennedy's large head wound was a tangential wound of both entrance and exit, and that the throat wound was either an entrance of the bullet exiting the skull, or an exit of a piece of bone from the head wound. This suggests he was open to the idea there were two head wounds as well, and that a bullet had descended in the neck." <<<


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

And did Kemp Clark perform the autopsy?

Face it, Pat, you've got nowhere to go with your "3 SHOTS HIT KENNEDY" made-up theory....because it has no basis in fact at all. None. There is no evidence anywhere to indicate that JFK was struck by more than TWO bullets. None. Only theories. And you're happy with your theories (evidently). I'm happier, however, with the provable and verifiable FACT that President Kennedy was wounded by only TWO bullets on 11/22/63.


>>> "Now riddle me this, why does Bugliosi say Kellerman heard a third shot, just as he was getting on the radio, when Kellerman testified to hearing a "flurry of shots" at this time?" <<<

Your mind wandered, eh? (Or is this still the same "3 Shots Hit JFK" subject?) ~shrug~

To answer your riddle -- I haven't the foggiest. Go ask Vince.

But you know what Roy Kellerman's "flurry" was, don't you? It's obvious once you know what the real evidence is. Kellerman was obviously hearing the sound of the ONE single head-shot bullet fragmenting in the front of the limousine, right next to Kellerman's ear in the front seat -- i.e., the fragmented head-shot bullet striking the windshield and also striking the chrome topping near the windshield.

Hence, Kellerman said he heard "a flurry of shells come into the car."

BTW, within Roy Kellerman's Warren Commission testimony, we also find this interesting passage regarding the specific number of gunshots he heard that day:

ARLEN SPECTER -- "You have drawn a conclusion, in effect, by saying that there were four wounds for the President and three wounds for the Governor; and from that, you say there must have been more than three shots in your opinion or your view. But my question is: Do you have any current recollection of having heard more than three shots?"

ROY KELLERMAN -- "No, I don't. I will have to say no."

David Von Pein
May 1, 2008

JFK ASSASSINATION ARGUMENTS (PART 248)

ROB CAPRIO SAID:

>>> "You are full of it, he [John Connally] heard JFK utter "I'm hit"..." <<<


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Oh good! The kook is going to magically turn Roy Kellerman's testimony
into John Connally's testimony. Lovely. (And somehow the person who is
"full of it" is me. Go figure the massive irony there.)

John B. Connally NEVER, EVER said that he heard John F. Kennedy say
"I'm hit" or anything else (he didn't even hear him say, "That bastard
Oswald is shooting at me from the sixth floor!", which would, of course,
have been an accurate statement from President Kennedy's dying
lips). ;)

Rob, just how many times do you think you can just flat-out lie about
the evidence in this case? How many is too many times I wonder? 3,500?
6,000? Or is there no limit to the number of times you'll mangle the
evidence (whether it be on purpose or by just the fact you are ignorant
of the facts)?


>>> "My source [for John Connally being hit twice] is JBC saying he was NOT hit by the same bullet that hit JFK, thus, he was saying he was hit more than once as there is no way he had a chest wound and a broken wrist from the same bullet." <<<

Why in the world not?

We know a bullet pierced his upper back and came out his chest. So,
WHERE DID THIS BULLET GO if not into some OTHER part of JBC's body?
It certainly didn't go into another victim in the car (there were none).

And that bullet certainly didn't go into the limo's seats or floorboards.
No damage like that was found at all. (Robert Frazier's probably up to
his old lies again, right?)

So, where did that bullet go after it exited John Connally's chest if
NOT into John Connally's right wrist and then on into his left thigh?

(Let's watch as Rob The Kook invents some more "evidence" for us to
chew on regarding that last question.)

BTW -- Connally's wrist was almost certainly hit by Bullet CE399 just
milliseconds after Z-Film Frame #224, as we can easily see in these
toggling Z-Film clips, which show Connally's right arm (attached to
the same right wrist that Robby apparently thinks has not been injured
yet) flying upward, then down again, starting at Z226:






>>> "The doctors that worked on [Governor Connally] all said they had doubts one bullet caused all of this damage." <<<

And yet we still have Dr. Shaw telling the world on live television on
11/22/63 (after having operated on the Governor) that all of Connally's
injuries had likely been the result of "one bullet" hitting him (see the
video below). Go figure that.




>>> "If he was hit a[t] Z223 like the WC said..." <<<

Another error from the Error Machine known as "Robcap".

The Warren Commission never ever placed a definitive (single)
Zapruder Film frame number on the SBT. Never. They bracketed the
SBT timing, saying it occurred between frames Z210 and Z225.

And they were right too (even via 1964 investigative technology),
because the SBT very, very likely DID, indeed, occur within that
bracketed WC timespan (at precisely Z224, IMO).


>>> "...He [JBC] could not have turned so quickly as he does in the
film." <<<

Huh?

Making shit up again, I see.

~sigh~


>>> "He [JBC] also could not have held his hat for 5 seconds after his wrist was broken." <<<

And yet we KNOW (via Nellie Connally's own words on this very subject)
that not only did John Connally hold onto that white Stetson hat for
"5 seconds" after his right wrist was struck by Oswald's Carcano
bullet, but we also know that he held onto that hat with his right
hand ALL THE WAY TO PARKLAND HOSPITAL:

"He had the hat in his hand when I pulled him over and crouched him down and he was holding that hat up against him. He closed up that wound that would've killed him before we got to the hospital." -- Nellie Connally


>>> "The point is, he [John Connally] never accepted being hit by the same shot as JFK, therefore, he had to have been hit by multiple shots." <<<

Why?

Connally HAD to have been hit by more than one bullet simply because
he was NOT (per you and JBC) hit by the same bullet that hit JFK?

I think these three letters are required here:

WTF???

And these three too:

LOL!


>>> "Kellerman said he heard a flurry of shots at the end. How could there be a flurry of shots with a bolt-actioned rifle?" <<<

Kellerman's "flurry of shells" that he said entered the car at the
tail-end of the shooting was almost certainly the result of Kellerman
hearing the two bullet fragments (CE567 and CE569) striking the
windshield and chrome strip very near where Kellerman himself was
seated. And this "flurry of shells" (fragments) came from the one
single shot that hit JFK's head.

But I'm sure that you, Rob, like your scenario better....a scenario
that has several extra WHOLE BULLETS entering the car in a "flurry",
with only CE567 and CE569 (from LHO's gun) being found after the
shooting.

Where did the bulk of these bullets from this "flurry" go after entering the
vehicle? Did they just vanish (like all other unwanted conspiracy-favoring
evidence in this whole case)? Prob'ly so, huh?


DVP SAID (IN ANOTHER POST):

>>> "Question (again): WHEN did John Connally ever say it was his own belief that he had been hit "twice" by rifle fire in Dealey Plaza?" <<<


TO WHICH ROB RESPONDED (IN TYPICAL KOOK-LIKE FASHION):

>>> "When he said the was NOT hit by the same bullet that hit JFK at Z220." <<<


DVP NOW SAYS:

Again -- what in the heck does Connally's non-belief in the SBT have to
do (in ANY way) with the NUMBER OF SEPARATE BULLETS that struck
Connally's body on November 22, 1963?

You're goofy.

And, btw, JFK wasn't hit at "Z220" either. The SBT bullet struck both
limo victims at Z224.

David Von Pein
June 3, 2008

JFK ASSASSINATION ARGUMENTS (PART 785)

GARY HOLT SAID:

The only way to “link” a fired bullet to any firearm is to match the marks on the bullet (from the lands and grooves of the rifling) to the rifling on the barrel of the weapon…and saying fragments were “consistent with having come from that gun” means nothing at all. I’d guess that the manufacturer of the ammunition was Norma...they made sporting/hunting loads for most all WWII rifles, and were about the only ones who did. So a fragment being “consistent” with the type of bullet that a 6.5 Italian rifle would fire would also be consistent to ANY Norma made Bullet…even one for a 30-06, a 8m/m, a 7.7 etc...the actual caliber would not even matter.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

The fact still remains that there isn't ONE bullet or bullet fragment in this case that can be said to have positively NOT come from Oswald's rifle. Period. All bullets and fragments in this case either definitely came from MC rifle #C2766 or were consistent with having come from that gun.

And the FBI's firearms expert Robert Frazier did, indeed, testify that the smaller bullet fragments in evidence in this case were "consistent with" bullets that are known to have come from the Carcano rifle owned by Lee Harvey Oswald. Here's just one example of such testimony from Frazier (at 5 H 72):


ARLEN SPECTER -- "Now, referring to a fragment heretofore marked as Q9 for FBI record purposes, and now marked as Commission Exhibit No. 842 [a metal fragment removed from the wrist of Governor Connally], will you describe that fragment for us, please?"

ROBERT A. FRAZIER -- "Yes, sir; this is a small fragment of metal which weighed one-half a grain when I first examined it in the laboratory. It is a piece of lead, and could have been a part of a bullet or a core of a bullet. However, it lacks any physical characteristics which would permit stating whether or not it actually originated from a bullet."

MR. SPECTER -- "Are its physical characteristics consistent with having come from Commission Exhibit 399?"

MR. FRAZIER -- "Yes, sir; it could have."

MR. SPECTER -- "Are they consistent with that fragment identified as Commission Exhibit No. 842, as having come from fragment identified as Commission Exhibit 567 [one of the front-seat bullet fragments fired from Oswald's rifle]? ....

MR. FRAZIER -- "Yes, sir; it could have."

MR. SPECTER -- "Were the characteristics of the fragment identified as Commission Exhibit 842 consistent with having come from the fragment heretofore identified as Commission Exhibit 569 [the other front-seat bullet fragment fired from Oswald's C2766 Carcano rifle]?"

MR. FRAZIER -- "Yes, sir."

---------------

So, we can see via the above expert testimony from Bob Frazier that the largest Connally wrist fragment was considered to be "consistent with" other bullets and fragments that were positively fired from Lee Oswald's rifle.

And just how likely would it be for fragments from OTHER non-Oswald guns to have shown up in the evidence pile in this murder case, and yet have ONLY TINY FRAGMENTS from those "other" guns show up (vs. any fragments that were large enough to be compared with test bullets from LHO's gun in order to positively eliminate Oswald's rifle as a candidate for having fired all of the bullets that struck any of the limo occupants in Dealey Plaza)?

What do you suppose the odds were of those "other" assassins getting THAT LUCKY?


GARY HOLT SAID:

I seriously doubt that any fragments would make a sound audible over the surrounding noise of the motorcade. Even a bullet making a direct hit on the metal body of the car would not have come even close to the description of a sonic boom.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Don't conspiracy theorists find the following terminology utilized by Secret Service agent Roy Kellerman interesting? Doesn't this testimony sound a lot like the explanation I was talking about earlier concerning Kellerman hearing the CE567 and CE569 bullet fragments from the head shot striking the limo's interior?:

"A flurry of shells come [sic] into the car."

Yes, it's true that Kellerman only used the term "flurry of shells" one time during his Warren Commission testimony (vs. "flurry of shots" on other occasions during his testimony).

But when you come to think of it, those two words ("shells" vs. "shots") are certainly not consistent with each other. A "shell" coming "into the car" is not the same thing as hearing a "flurry of shots".

Yes, you can attack me for possibly nitpicking this issue to death regarding "shells" vs. "shots", but Mr. Kellerman's precise words are quite interesting, IMO, in the sense that it would seem as though Mr. Kellerman actually HEARD the physical "shells" (i.e., bullet fragments) coming "INTO THE CAR" (which were his exact words).

And what OTHER "shells" (bullet fragments) could he possibly have been talking about if not CE567 and CE569 (the two largest bullet fragments from Oswald's gun that were found very near Kellerman's seat in the limousine)?

YMMV. But for my money (and considering the sum total of all the evidence), Roy H. Kellerman heard CE567/569 striking the limousine when he said "a flurry of shells come into the car".

David Von Pein
December 6, 2009

JFK ASSASSINATION ARGUMENTS (PART 775)

[GRAMMAR NOTE -- All of Robert Harris' needless commas have been removed by DVP in the post below.]


ROBERT HARRIS SAID:

David, why is it that in the Altgens photo, taken at the equivalent of [Zapruder Film frame] 255, after at least two shots have been fired, we see so many smiling faces, with no-one screaming or diving to the ground?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Why would there necessarily have to be mass hysteria in Dealey Plaza at that time (circa Z255)?

At that point in the James Altgens picture, it's only been 5.2 seconds since Lee Harvey Oswald fired his first shot. Not exactly a long time, right Robert? And two Secret Service agents are, indeed, reacting to the sound of the gunfire by looking over their right shoulders.



But it's only been 1.7 seconds since anyone in the limousine was HIT by a bullet, which is hardly enough time for people to start reacting to the EFFECTS of the shots being fired (i.e., the wounding of people in Dealey Plaza).


ROBERT HARRIS SAID:

Why do we ONLY see such things after frame 285?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Because it was only after Z285 (and after Z313 actually) that the spectators realized what was truly happening in the Plaza -- i.e., that the President was being shot at.

Duh!


ROBERT HARRIS SAID:

Why did none of the Secret Service agents pull out a gun until after frame 285?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

The Secret Service men reacted somewhat slowly, yes. No denying that fact. But I don't really see how this inquiry bolsters your pet "Z285" theory though.


ROBERT HARRIS SAID:

Why did Clint Hill wait until after frame 285 to leap from the limo and state that he did so in direct reaction to a gunshot?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

I'm sure his leaping from the running board of the SS car was, indeed, "in direct reaction to a gunshot". Obviously Hill's running toward the President's car was "in direct reaction to a gunshot", for Pete sake. What ELSE would have been the reason for his dramatic action that day?

But to state categorically that Clint Hill was "reacting" to a specific gunshot fired at precisely Z285 (as you theorize) is just plain silly and impossible to pin down with spot-on accuracy (as is the case with pretty much everything you purport with regard to your totally subjective analysis of the Zapruder Film and the witness statements in relation to your pet Z285 theory).


ROBERT HARRIS SAID:

Why did Bill Greer wait until just after 285 to slow the limo and spin around so fast that some critics thought his turns were humanly impossible?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Once more we're treated to Bob Harris' unique subjective look at things. In Harris' world, everything seems to revolve around his fictitious missed shot at exactly Z285 of the Zapruder Film.

In Bob's one-sided "Z285 world", there isn't even the slightest possibility that what we're seeing in the Z-Film just after frame #285 could be the limousine's occupants behaving in ways that might NOT indicate that they were each hearing a gunshot at precisely Z285.

In Bob's "Z285" world, the movements of Nellie Connally and Jacqueline Kennedy couldn't POSSIBLY be the movements and actions of two women who, just 3.33 seconds prior to Z285, heard a gunshot being fired from Lee Oswald's gun on the sixth floor of the Book Depository....with that single gunshot resulting in the husbands of both of those women being wounded by the same bullet....with the two women then reacting in a perfectly normal fashion by LEANING IN toward their respective wounded spouses.

The above scenario is simply IMPOSSIBLE in the Z285 world of Robert Harris.

Go figure.


ROBERT HARRIS SAID:

Why did Greer say he felt the "concussion" of the second shot as he was turned to the rear? And how do you explain why he didn't turn to the rear until well after 223??


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Once again, Mr. Harris is assigning ludicrous levels of ASSUMED AND PRESUMED SPOT-ON ACCURACY to the statements of certain Dealey Plaza witnesses.

We're only talking about a fraction more than THREE SECONDS IN REAL TIME between the time of the actual second shot fired (by Oswald at Z224) and Bob Harris' make-believe missed shot at Z285.

3.3 seconds, Bob!! That's all.

Anything you attribute to a missed shot at precisely Z285 can just as easily be attributed to Oswald's real second shot at Z224. The difference in real time is negligible.

But to Bob "Z285" Harris, 3.3 seconds is an amount of time that can be dissected and sliced to absolute perfection in the minds and testimony of EVERY SINGLE LIMO OCCUPANT.

Can you say "That's ridiculous"? I sure can when talking about this silly "Z285" subject that Bob Harris loves so much.


ROBERT HARRIS SAID:

Why did both Mrs. Kennedy and Mrs. Connally believe that their husbands were hit by a shot that came after Gov Connally began to shout, but before the explosive headwound?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

See THIS POST.


ROBERT HARRIS SAID:

And why did they both visibly react to that shot in perfect unison with Zapruder's, Greer's and Kellerman's reactions?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Coincidence. And as I mentioned above, the coincidence is fully explainable and understandable and reasonable in the case of Nellie's and Jackie's in-unison head movements (which Harris thinks is "ducking" from the sound of a gunshot, but it isn't).


ROBERT HARRIS SAID:

Why did Kellerman duck and simultaneously shield his ear at exactly the same instant that the others reacted?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Your "shield his ear" comment is pure speculation. And Kellerman's movements can easily be explained this way:

He was reaching for the radio microphone in front of him.


ROBERT HARRIS SAID:

Why did Brehm, J. Hill and Mary Moorman all remember multiple shots, beginning just as the limo passed in front of them?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Maybe because there WERE multiple shots being fired at just about that time. Oswald fired two shots after Z160 (at Z224 and Z313), and all three of those witnesses were pretty close to the limo during that Z224-Z313 timespan.


ROBERT HARRIS SAID:

Why did Greer say that the last shots were nearly simultaneous and Kellerman say they were like a "flurry"?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Kellerman's "flurry of shells/shots coming into the car" testimony is very easily explained:

He heard the effects of the head-shot bullet fragments striking the windshield and the chrome molding very near his seated position in the limousine. That is almost certainly the best explanation for Roy Kellerman's "flurry" testimony.

BTW, how did bullet fragments from Lee Oswald's gun (CE567 and CE569) get into the front seat area of the limo if, as you suggest, Lee Oswald didn't actually HIT any victims (or the car's interior) with any of his Mannlicher-Carcano bullets on November 22nd?

Were CE567/569 planted in the limo by evil cover-up agents after the assassination, Bob?


ROBERT HARRIS SAID:

Why did most witnesses recall that the final shots were closely bunched?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

And there were several who didn't recall such a thing, as I discuss here.


ROBERT HARRIS SAID:

Why is it that not even one law enforcement professional recalled the early shots being closer together than the final shots??


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

What difference does it really make?

Oh, I know to a person who loves the idea of a JFK conspiracy (like Robert Harris, for example) something like this makes a world of difference.

But the answers to the important questions HOW MANY SHOTS WERE FIRED? and WHERE DID THE SHOTS COME FROM? can be found by looking at the BEST EVIDENCE in the case when it comes to trying to answer those two inquiries.

And the following photos and charts (in tandem) contain that "Best Evidence", IMO:










ROBERT HARRIS SAID:

Why did Gov Connally not hear the shot that hit him?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Simple: Because that shot ACTUALLY HIT HIM. And he was no doubt physically struck by that bullet (CE399, of course) before the sound of that shot reached his ears. I think you'll find that it is not uncommon for a victim of a gunshot wound to not physically hear the shot that wounded him.

Connally Addendum----

Keep in mind that the totality of John Connally's testimony perfectly buttresses the single-assassin scenario and the Single-Bullet Theory particularly (whether Mr. Connally himself believed in the SBT or not).

John Connally, in 1967, even went so far as to admit that the SBT was certainly "possible" in his mind. More on that here.


ROBERT HARRIS SAID:

Why did no-one else in the limo hear that shot either?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

You're so entrenched in your belief of your made-up "Z285" missed shot that you will never ever be able to see that your theory rests solely on subjective and unprovable analysis of the Zapruder Film.

Of course people in the limo heard the shot that hit Governor Connally....that was Shot #2 from Lee Oswald's gun at Z224. But you, Bob Harris, have convinced yourself that those limo occupants were talking about some OTHER shot (your make-believe Z285 shot, I guess).

But, yes, of course the limo witnesses heard the shot that hit John Connally (except Mr. Connally himself, of course, as mentioned earlier).


ROBERT HARRIS SAID:

Why did his [John Connally's] wife only recall hearing ONE noise prior to him beginning to shout?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

If you fine-tune your analysis any further, you'll probably be able to convince yourself that Nellie Connally blinked her eyes exactly 17 times after hearing the first shot but before she heard her husband shout "No, no, no".


ROBERT HARRIS SAID:

Why did no-one in the limo recall more than one early shot and why did they exhibit no startle reactions prior to frame 285? And why DID they exhibit simultaneous startle reactions beginning a third of a second AFTER 285?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

They didn't. That's only your singularly subjective look at things. I doubt that one other person on the planet would evaluate the movements of the limo occupants the exact same way that Robert "Z285" Harris has done.


ROBERT HARRIS SAID:

Why did Dr. Luis Alvarez conclude that Zapruder and Greer were startled by a loud noise at precisely frame 285?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

I'll take this opportunity to quote the author of the JFK Bible:

"The CBS experiment [in 1967] proves that a gunshot will normally cause a cameraman’s neuromuscular system to go into, as Dr. [Luis] Alvarez put it, “a temporary spasm.”

So the three gunshots that day [November 22, 1963] would have almost assuredly caused a startled reaction in Zapruder and, hence, a blur on his film. And we find blurs around Z160 (the first shot), around Z220–228 (which clearly coincides with Kennedy’s and Connally’s reactions to the second shot), and Z313 (the third shot).

The demonstrable defect in blur or jiggle analysis is that although a gunshot will produce a blur (and hence, the absence of a blur is very strong circumstantial evidence of the absence of a gunshot), a blur obviously does not necessarily have to be caused by a gunshot.

Any number of other things--a cough, an unintentional nudge (Zapruder’s secretary was right next to him), a gust of wind, movement of Zapruder’s feet, even his efforts to keep an object in frame--could also cause a blur.

Zapruder himself testified before the Warren Commission that his images weren’t very clear for the simple reason that his camera movements were magnified by the telephoto lens setting he was using. “Did you ever have binoculars,” he asked, “and every time you move, everything is exaggerated in the move? That’s one reason why they’re kind of blurred, the movement” (7 H 572).

Further, the emotional reaction of what one sees through the viewfinder could also easily cause a startled reaction. Indeed, Zapruder testified how he reacted to the sight of the impact of the bullet on Kennedy’s head (“I started...yelling, ‘They’ve killed him.’”) (7 H 571–572).

This would explain the fact that Alvarez, Hartmann, and Scott all detected blurs in the Zapruder film not only around the time of the head shot at Z313, but also around Z330–334, a second later, when he was fully absorbing the horrific sight of the president’s head having exploded in front of him.

In fact, though the overwhelming weight of the evidence shows that only three shots were fired in Dealey Plaza, the two experts from the HSCA photographic panel saw six blurs on the Zapruder film, the weakest of which was around Z290–292, a time when there is no evidence at all that a shot was fired (6 HSCA 30).

Because of all of the above variables and imponderables, and because there is no known way to distinguish a blur or jiggle caused by an involuntary reaction from one caused by, for instance, a voluntary pan/search movement, blur or jiggle analysis can never be conclusive on the number or timing of the shots fired in Dealey Plaza and should not be given great weight." -- Vincent Bugliosi; Pages 335-336 of "Reclaiming History: The Assassination Of President John F. Kennedy" (Endnotes)(c.2007)




ROBERT HARRIS SAID:

Why did DMN [Dallas Morning News] reporter Mary Woodward recall two closely bunched shots as the limo approached her, that she described as "ear shattering", David? How could some shots be ear shattering while others were not heard at all??


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Possibly due to Oswald's first (missed) shot at Z160 being something akin to a misfire (but not a complete misfire, since the bullet certainly was fired from the gun, as indicated by the number of shells [3] found on the floor in the Sniper's Nest).

That first shot could have had a different (and quieter) sound to it. In fact, many/most witnesses reported that the first sound they heard sounded more like a firecracker than it did a rifle shot.


ROBERT HARRIS SAID:

And why did so many other witnesses state that the first noise they heard sounded much different than the ones at the end?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

See my last comment.

In the final analysis, we're left with these things:

1.) THREE shells being found in the TSBD Sniper's Nest.

2.) Lee Oswald's rifle (with his prints on it) being found on the same floor as the shells.

3.) Bullet fragments CE567 and CE569 (fired conclusively from Oswald's rifle) being found in the limousine.

4.) Bullet CE399 being determined by both the Warren Commission and the HSCA to be the bullet that injured both Kennedy and Connally in Dealey Plaza (like it or not).

5.) And this previously-linked witness statistic:



When looking at the above list (plus many other items of physical and circumstantial evidence that I didn't mention), you don't have to be an A+ student in mathematics to figure out the most reasonable and most likely answer to the basic questions concerning the assassination of John F. Kennedy.

But, for some odd reason, the obvious answers to those questions keep eluding conspiracy theorists the world over.

~shrug~

David Von Pein
December 1, 2009

JFK ASSASSINATION ARGUMENTS (PART 784)

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Secret Service agent Roy Kellerman said he heard a "flurry of SHELLS" coming "into the car". That "flurry" was most certainly CE567 and CE569 striking the limousine's interior.

The reason I'm so sure of this is -- IT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE (based on the evidence that POSITIVELY EXISTS in the case, vs. evidence that only exists in the minds of conspiracy theorists who are desperate to increase the number of shots fired in Dealey Plaza to a number above 3).


ROBERT HARRIS SAID:

That's utter nonsense.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

It's not nonsense at all, Robert. In fact, as I pointed out, it's the one single explanation that makes THE MOST SENSE when taking into account the totality of all the evidence in this case.

E.G.:

1.) Lee Oswald fired 3 shots from his Sniper's Nest in the Book Depository.

2.) 90%+ of the earwitnesses heard 3 shots or fewer.

3.) 3 spent bullet shells were found in the TSBD's Sniper's Nest.

4.) Oswald was the only shooter seen on November 22 (which is remarkable if the Oliver Stone-like theory of THREE gunmen is supposed to be believed, with one of those shooters standing practically right out in the open on the Grassy Knoll).

5.) Every single bullet or bullet fragment that was discovered and placed into evidence following the assassination was either positively linked to Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano rifle or was consistent with having come from that gun (which would have been the miracle of the ages if bullets from a variety of weapons had struck the two victims in the limousine).

In short -- The sum total of evidence indicates that Lee Harvey Oswald was the only person firing any bullets at the President's car in Dealey Plaza on November the 22nd, 1963.*

* A conspiracy theorist's desire for a conspiracy notwithstanding, of course.

David Von Pein
December 6, 2009

JFK ASSASSINATION ARGUMENTS (PART 1)

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

The evidence favoring Lee Harvey Oswald's sole guilt isn't going to
suddenly change. And anyone with a single working brain cell knows
this to be true.


ROB CAPRIO SAID:

"It was non-existent in 1963 and it is still non-existent today."


DVP SAID:

It's great being a conspiracy-spouting kook, isn't it? You have such
FREEDOM! And, having such freedom and not having to rely on ANY of the
real assassination evidence (which ALL spells "Oswald Was A Guilty
Bastard"), you can actually NOT feel embarrassed when typing out
incredibly-stupid nonsense, such as this sentence when talking about
the evidence favoring Oswald's guilt:

"It was non-existent in 1963 and it is still non-existent today."

I envy such freedom.

Too bad I'm not a kook.


DVP SAID:

I recently re-watched the WFAA-TV (ABC) as-it-happened coverage of
11/22/63, and took note of how ZERO of the witnesses interviewed
(including WFAA newsmen Jay Watson and Jerry Haynes) heard more than
three shots that day.


ROB SAID:

"Yeah, like cameramen know about the sounds of gunshots? Please."


DVP SAID:

Neither of the WFAA men I mentioned were "cameramen". But that's not
important anyway, because your comment is very stupid, even if Watson
and Haynes HAD been "cameramen".

Both men mentioned hearing three gunshots (the same number also heard
by several other TV reporters who immediately reported the shooting to
America within minutes of the assassination--an assassination that
most conspiracy theorists think was carried out by multiple guns and
featured anywhere from 4 to 10 gunshots).

But, I guess Rob thinks that ONLY POLICE OFFICERS CAN ACCURATELY COUNT
GUNSHOTS. Nobody else could have possibly been able to count the
number of loud sounds (i.e., gunshots) they heard accurately. Right,
Bobby?

(Geez.)


ROB SAID:

"The people that matter are the ones that are trained in gunshot
sounds, and most of the police never said they only heard 3 reports."


DVP SAID:

Oh, really? What about the following 24 officers who did not hear more
than three gunshots? Let's have a look. ....

MR. BELIN -- "How many shots did you hear?"

OFFICER MARRION BAKER -- "Three."

~~~~~

MR. STERN -- "You cannot now recall more than two shots?"

OFFICER BOBBY HARGIS -- "That is all that I can recall remembering."

~~~~~

MR. BELIN -- "How many shots did you hear?"

OFFICER D.V. HARKNESS -- "Three."

~~~~~

MR. BALL -- "Did you hear the shots?"

OFFICER EARLE BROWN -- "Yes, sir."

MR. BALL -- "How many?"

MR. BROWN -- "Three."

~~~~~

MR. RANKIN -- "Did you hear any more than three shots?"

POLICE CHIEF JESSE CURRY -- "No, sir; I did not."

MR. RANKIN -- "Are you sure of that?"

MR. CURRY -- "I am positive of that. I heard three shots. I will never
forget it."

~~~~~

MR. BELIN -- "How many shots did you hear?"

OFFICER CLYDE HAYGOOD -- "Three."

~~~~~

MR. BALL -- "Did you hear some more shots [after the first shot]?

OFFICER B.J. MARTIN -- "Yes, sir."

MR. BALL -- "How many?"

MR. MARTIN -- "Two more shots."

~~~~~

DEPUTY SHERIFF EUGENE BOONE -- "Well, it was approximately 1 o'clock
when we heard the shots. The motorcade had already passed by us and
turned back to the north on Houston Street. And we heard what we
thought to be a shot. And there seemed to be a pause between the first
shot and the second shot and third shots--a little longer pause. And
we raced across the street there."

~~~~~

DEPUTY SHERIFF JACK FAULKNER (via the Sheriff's Report filed by
Faulkner on 11/22/63) -- "I was standing on the corner of Main and
Houston, when the presendital motorcade came by. A few seconds later I
heard three shots and the crowd began to move enmasse toward Elm
Street."

~~~~~

DEPUTY SHERIFF C.M. JONES (via the Sheriff's Report filed by Jones on
11/22/63) -- "Friday Morning, November the 22nd, 1963, between the
hours of approximately 12 noon and 12:35pm, I was standing in front of
the Criminal Courts Building talking with Allan Sweatt and Robert
Benevides and awaiting the arrival of the motorcade bearing the
President's party. The motorcade passed in front of us and everything
appeared to be in order. A few short seconds later I heard an
explosion, followed in about 3 to 5 seconds later two more explosions.
I am certain that I recognized the second two as being that of
gunfire."

~~~~~

DEPUTY SHERIFF W.W. MABRA (via the Sheriff's Report filed by Mabra on
11/27/63) -- "I and officer Orville Smith were standing on the curb in
front of [the] Criminal Courts Building, approximately 40 feet east of
Houston St., when the car bearing President Kennedy passed.
Approximately 1 minute after the car turned right onto Houston St., we
heard 3 shots."

~~~~~

DEPUTY SHERIFF A.D. McCURLEY (via the Sheriff's Report filed by
McCurley on 11/22/63) -- "I was standing at the front entrance of the
Dallas Sheriff's Office at 505 Main Street, Dallas, as the President's
motorcade passed and was watching the remainder of the parade pass
when I heard a retort [sic; report] and I immediately recognized it as
the sound of a rifle. I started running around the corner where I knew
the President's car should be, and in a matter of a few seconds heard
a second shot and then a third shot."

~~~~~

DEPUTY SHERIFF LUKE MOONEY (via the Sheriff's Report filed by Mooney
on 11/23/63) -- "I was standing in front of the Sheriff's office at
505 Main Street, Dallas, when President Kennedy and the motorcade
passed by. Within a few seconds after he had passed me and the
motorcade had turned the corner, I heard a shot, and I immediately
started running towards the front of the motorcade, and within seconds
heard a second and a third shot."

~~~~~

DEPUTY SHERIFF CHARLES P. PLAYER (via the Sheriff's Report filed by
Player on 11/22/63) -- "Mr. Decker, I watched the motorcade pass on
Record St. from your office window. After the President's car passed I
started back to my desk. I heard three shots and went back to the
window. People were running in all directions. I left the office by
the back door and went across the street to where my squad car was
parked on the side street just back of the book depository."

~~~~~

SHERIFF'S OFFICER L.C. SMITH (via the Sheriff's Report filed by Smith
on 11/22/63) -- "Just shortly before 12:30pm, Friday, November 22,
1963, I was standing in front of the Sheriff's Office on Main Street
and watched the President and his party drive by. Just a few seconds
later, I heard the first shot, which I thought was a backfire, then
the second shot and third shot rang out. I knew then that this was gun
shots and everyone else did also."

~~~~~

DEPUTY SHERIFF ALLAN SWEATT (via the Sheriff's Report filed by Sweatt
on 11/23/63) -- "At approximately 12:30 PM, Friday, November 22, 1963,
I was standing with a group of Deputy Sheriffs about 30 feat [sic]
east of the corner of Houston and Main Street on Main Street. The
president's caravan had just passed and about a minute or 2 I heard a
shot, and about 7 seconds later another shot and approximately 2 or 3
seconds later a third shot, which sounded to me like a rifle and
coming from the vicinity of Elm and Houston Street."

~~~~~

DEPUTY SHERIFF L.C. TODD (via the Sheriff's Report filed by Todd on
11/27/63) -- "On November the 22nd, 1963, I had come on duty at 9am
working the information window at the Dallas County Jail. About
12:15pm, the window was closed where I worked and I walked outside and
onto Houston Street to view the President's motorcade as it passed. A
few seconds after the President's car passed me and had turned the
corner of Houston onto Elm Street, I heard what I first thought was a
backfire. I heard a total of 3 and after the last two (2), I
immediately recognized them as being gun fire."

~~~~~

DEPUTY SHERIFF RALPH WALTERS (via the Sheriff's Report filed by
Walters on 11/23/63) -- "I was standing on Main Street in front of the
Criminal Courts Building the morning of November 22, 1963, and
observed the Presidential procession pass by. Just after it had turned
the corner and a very short time later, I heard what was [sic] shots,
3 in number."

~~~~~

DEPUTY SHERIFF EDDY "BUDDY" WALTHERS (via the Sheriff's Report filed
by Walthers on 11/22/63) -- "I was standing at the front entrance of
the Dallas Sheriff's Office when the motorcade with President Kennedy
passed. I was watching the remainder of the President's party when
within a few seconds I heard a retort [sic; report], and I immediately
recognized it to be a rifle shot. I immediately started running west
across Houston Street and ran across Elm Street and up into the
railroad yards. At this time it was not determined if, in fact, this
first retort [sic] and 2 succeeding retorts [sic] were of a rifle.
However, in my own mind, I knew."

~~~~~

SHERIFF'S OFFICER "RADIO" WATSON (via the Sheriff's Report filed by
Watson on 11/22/63) -- "I had just looked out the window of the radio
room facing Main Street and watched the Presidential parade pass and
as it turned the corner onto Record [Street], I looked over in that
direction but was unable to see any of the vehicles from my location
and about that time I heard three loud reports, evenly spaced, which I
presumed to be rifle or shotgun blast. I looked at the time on the
radio panel and it was about 40 seconds after 12:30pm as I was calling
Dallas PD on the hot line, and I asked the operator that answered if
anything had been reported, and she said no. I told her that I heard
what I believed to be three shots, and she thought I was kidding."

~~~~~

DEPUTY SHERIFF HARRY WEATHERFORD (via the Sheriff's Report filed by
Weatherford on 11/23/63) -- "On Friday, November 22, 1963, at about
12:30 PM, I was standing in front of the Sheriff's Office watching the
Presidential Motorcade. The President's car had passed my location a
couple of minutes when I heard a loud report, which I thought was a
railroad torpedo, as it sounded as if it came from the railroad yard.
Thinking, this was a heck of a time for one to go off, then I heard a
2nd report which had more of an echo report and thought to myself that
this was a rifle, and I started toward the corner when I heard the 3rd
report."

~~~~~

DEPUTY SHERIFF JOHN WISEMAN (via the Sheriff's Report filed by Wiseman
on 11/23/63) -- "I was standing in front of the Sheriff's Office at
505 Main Street, Dallas, when the President passed and the car went
around the corner and a few more cars had passed when I heard a shot
and I knew something had happened. I ran at once to the corner of
Houston and Main Street and out into the street when the second and
third shots ran [sic; rang] out. I ran on across Houston Street, then
across the park to where a policeman was having trouble with his
motorcycle and I saw a man laying on the grass. This man laying on the
grass said the shots came from the building and he was pointing to the
old Sexton Building."

DVP Interjection --- That's kind of an interesting statement from
Wiseman there, IF the "man laying on the grass" was Bill Newman. Of
course, I suppose it could have been another man on the grass.

It's also interesting to note that Wiseman, in that same November 23rd
Sheriff's Report, says that he talked to Marilyn Sitzman just after
the shooting too....and (quoting Wiseman again): "She said the shots
came from that way and she pointed at the old Sexton Building [aka;
the TSBD]".

~~~~~

MR. FITHIAN -- "Officer, you said that as far as your memory is
concerned, you only heard one shot?"

OFFICER H.B. McLAIN [who certainly doesn't do the "More Than 3 Shots
Were Fired" CT crowd any favors] -- "Yes, sir, that is all that I can
recall. It was a loud one, but that was the only one."

~~~~~

MR. BALL -- "Did you hear any shots?"

OFFICER J.C. WHITE -- "No, sir."

DVP Interjection --- If up to SIX gunshots (or maybe up to TEN, per
Robert Groden's beliefs) were fired in Dealey Plaza that day, I wonder
how Officer White missed hearing every last one of them from his
position on top of the Triple Overpass on Elm Street?

However, a huge grain of salt must be placed beside anything this guy
White had to say, I will readily admit; because Mr. White claims that
a huge freight train was on the Overpass bridge at the exact time of
JFK's murder.

That train observation, of course, we know is false, based on the
photos and films that show no such train on the tracks above Elm
Street at that time. Such as this picture snapped by James Altgens:




ROB SAID:

"Those in the motorcade also said they thought they heard more than 3
reports."


DVP SAID:

~sigh~

Dead wrong (of course).

I know you were probably referring to JUST the policemen who were
riding in the motorcade in your above comment....but even there, you
are incorrect on several counts, because many officers in the
motorcade said they heard two or three shots (and not more than
three), including several of the officers I've listed above (such as
Baker, Hargis, Harkness, Haygood, Martin, and Police Chief Curry).

Plus -- In addition to the police officers who were riding in the
motorcade, many other people who were in the motorcade said they heard
three (or fewer) shots.

Here are just a few examples (and there are many more), with these
five examples representing the five people who were riding with JFK in
the Presidential limousine on 11/22/63.....

MR. SPECTER -- "How many [shots] did you hear in all?"

NELLIE CONNALLY -- "I heard three."

~~~~~

MR. RANKIN -- "Do you have any recollection of whether there were one
or more shots?"

JACQUELINE KENNEDY -- "Well, there must have been two. .... And those
are the only two I remember."

~~~~~

MR. SPECTER -- "Now, how many shots, or how many noises have you just
described that you heard?"

LIMO DRIVER WILLIAM GREER -- "I know there was three that I heard--
three. But I cannot remember any more than probably three. I know
there was three anyway that I heard."

~~~~~

MR. SPECTER -- "Now, in your prior testimony you described a flurry of
shells into the car. How many shots did you hear after the first noise
which you described as sounding like a firecracker?"

ROY KELLERMAN -- "Mr. Specter, these shells came in all together."

MR. SPECTER -- "Are you able to say how many you heard?"

MR. KELLERMAN -- "I am going to say two, and it was like a double
bang--bang, bang."

MR. SPECTER -- "You mean now two shots in addition to the first
noise?"

MR. KELLERMAN -- "Yes, sir; at least."

~~~~~

And Governor John Connally was a "Three Shot" witness. He heard two
shots and he felt the other one that hit him.

~~~~~

So, among the five people riding with President Kennedy in the limo,
the only person who can possibly be propped up as a "CT" type of
earwitness with respect to the number of gunshots is Secret Service
Agent Kellerman. And even HIS testimony seems to generally favor only
a "3-Shot" scenario.


ROB SAID:

"That is where the dictabelt comes in."


DVP SAID:

The Dictabelt evidence has been discredited entirely. For some reason,
many CTers continue to keep relying on it. Go figure that (il)logic.

DEBUNKING THE ACOUSTICS/DICTABELT NONSENSE:

http://JFKFiles.com/Acoustics

http://JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/Debunking The Acoustics Evidence


ROB SAID:

"Johnny [Carson] was a lap dog and a bastard."


DVP SAID:

~sigh~

Oh dear! Johnny was yet another shill working for the evil U.S.
Government, no doubt. Right?

Sounds like it's time for Rob to move to Russia. He'd probably be
much happier there, away from the foul stench of the forever-evil
machinations of Washington's and Hollywood's "bastards".

BTW, Johnny Carson's treatment of Jim "Mega-Kook" Garrison on January
31st, 1968, on "The Tonight Show" was nothing short of brilliant.
Johnny was tough, but fair. He gave Garrison a chance to talk (at some
length) and to provide SOME proof of his wild "Oswald Didn't Shoot
Anybody" claims.

But, naturally, all we got was Garrison's screwy multi-shooter
speculation, including his theory of an assassin firing from the sewer
(one of up to FIVE gunmen that Garrison speaks of!).

Anyone who listens to that 1968 Carson/Garrison interview and comes
away with an opinion that Carson was unfair to poor Jimbo during the
lengthy interview is probably in the kooky "Anybody But Oswald" club
themselves.

Carson asked hard questions of Garrison and didn't simply let Garrison
run off at the mouth unchallenged about his silly "Oswald Never Shot A
Soul" bullshit. For that, I admire the late Mr. Carson immensely. And
so does Vince Bugliosi (which I am glad to see).....

"Johnny may have been a comedian, but he had a good, solid head
on his shoulders, and he could spot a phony, or at least an empty
vessel [meaning Jim Garrison], when he saw one." -- Vincent Bugliosi;
Page 1370 of "Reclaiming History" (c.2007)



http://Garrison-Carson.blogspot.com


ROB BELLOWED:

"No, the first cop on the scene marked the automatic shells (2) with
his initials..."


DVP SAID:

Would you care to prove your assertion that these were "automatic"
shells?

Of course you can't prove any such thing, because there is absolutely
no indication in the record that any "automatic" bullet shells were
ever recovered on Tenth Street in Oak Cliff after J.D. Tippit's
murder. You're dreaming that "CTer Wishful Thinking" dream once again.

And would you also please provide the absolute proof that Officer J.M.
Poe marked any shells at all on November 22, 1963?

In light of this Warren Commission testimony given by Officer Poe, I
wish you luck in proving that latter claim:

OFFICER J.M. POE -- "He [Tippit murder witness Domingo Benavides] told
me, give [sic] me the same, or similar description of the man, and
told me he was running out across this lawn. He was unloading his
pistol as he ran, and he [Benavides] picked the shells up."

MR. BALL -- "Domingo told you who was running across the lawn?"

MR. POE -- "A man; white man."

MR. BALL -- "What was he doing?"

MR. POE -- "He was unloading his pistol as he run [sic]."

MR. BALL -- "And what did he [Benavides] say?"

MR. POE -- "He said he picked the two hulls up."

MR. BALL -- "Did he hand you the hulls?"

MR. POE -- "Yes, sir."

MR. BALL -- "Did you put any markings on the hulls?"

MR. POE -- "I couldn't swear to it; no, sir."

MR. BALL -- "What did you do with the hulls?"

MR. POE -- "I turned the hulls into the crime lab, which was at the
scene."


ROB SPEWED:

"Two other bullet cases were turned in to two different police
[officers] (one each), and no one knows what happened to them."


DVP SAID:

~sigh time (yet again)~

You must be cuckoo to utter such insane drivel. We know EXACTLY what
happened to the "two other bullet cases" that were turned over to the
police on 11/22/63.

One of those bullet shells was found by Virginia Davis in the side
yard of her apartment. And the other empty cartridge case was found by
Virginia's sister-in-law, Barbara Davis, also in the yard of the
Davis' apartment at the corner of 10th Street and Patton Avenue (the
exact same location where BOTH of the Davis girls saw Lee Harvey
Oswald physically emptying his revolver of bullet shells immediately
after J.D. Tippit was shot).

And both of these shells found by the Davises were positively
determined to be shells that were ejected from Lee Oswald's Smith &
Wesson .38 Special revolver (Serial Number V510210). .....

JOSEPH D. NICOL -- "It is my opinion, based upon the similarity of
class and individual characteristics, that the four cartridge cases in
[Commission Exhibit] 594 were fired in the same weapon as produced the
cartridge cases in [CE] 595."

Here are the four Oswald bullet shells:

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0147a.htm


ROB GUSHED:

"He [Sweet Saint Oz, or "The Second Oswald"...it's impossible to keep
track of all these imposters running around] entered the theater at
1:05 pm, purchased a ticket and then went to the balcony."


DVP SAID:

Oh, goodie, we're going to get to hear "Made-Up Conspiracy Theory
#587"! (Complete with exact times and everything...like "1:05 pm".)

Continue with your myth, I'm fascinated.....


ROB CONTINUES WITH HIS MYTH
(JUST AS DVP WANTED):

"He [the proverbial "Patsy For All 11/22/63 Dallas Murders", Lee H.
Oswald; or, maybe it was the LHO "imposter"....who knows?] went to get
popcorn at 1:15 pm and sat next to several people prior to the 1:20 pm
start of the film. One of these was a pregnant woman, and she left and
was never seen again. Why enter to see a movie and then leave before
it starts? She may have been letting someone know that Harvey Oswald
was there. My guess is HO was looking for his handler by moving around
as he sat next to multiple people, or he was setting up an alibi by
making people notice him."


DVP SAID:

Well, at least Rob put in the words "my guess is" near the end of the
above batch of wholly-unsupportable kookshit. I suppose we can be
thankful for that anyway.

Let's hear Chapter 3 of the fable.....


ROB WRITES CHAPTER 3:

"Lee Oswald never acted funny [when seen by Johnny Brewer at the shoe
store], as he was the second Oswald -- the one in a t-shirt. He
entered the theater around 1:30/35 pm and was the one that didn't
pay.

"Brewer, the nosy bum he is [in reality, Mr. Brewer was a very
underrated player in the events leading to LHO's arrest in the
theater; but, naturally, Rob The Kook must try to discredit everything
and everybody that leads to the "Oswald's Guilty" conclusion,
including Johnny Calvin Brewer], leaves his store and follows LO into
the theater and goes to the balcony. Not finding him, he then
questions the concession vendor about it (why he is not minding his
own business and running his own store is a mystery). Harvey Oswald
did not leave until his arrest, so he could not have left at 1:20 pm."


DVP SAID:

Rob's treatment of Johnny Brewer is sickening and reprehensible. But,
as mentioned within the text of Rob's fable above, all CT-Kooks MUST
try to paint EVERY "LN" type of witness in a bad light.

But, of course, if a particular witness favors a "conspiracy" of some
kind, then that witness is treated like royalty by the CT Brigade,
with those "CT" witnesses possessing razor-sharp and ultra-keen senses
and able to recall every little "conspiratorial" detail that will
later be highlighted by kooks like Rob.

Of course, to a non-kook who examines Johnny Brewer's actions after
1:30 PM on November 22nd, Brewer's activities were perfectly
reasonable and understandable (and even heroic to a degree).

Brewer heard on the radio that a policeman had just been shot just
blocks from his shoe store. Johnny also knew, of course, that the
President had been killed a short time before the officer was shot.

Brewer suddenly hears sirens out on the street and sees a man who
looks "scared" turning his back to the street as the police cars race
by behind him. (This, probably more than any other single thing,
aroused Brewer's suspicions about the man lurking in the store's
entryway.)

So, Brewer follows the man (who was Lee Harvey Oswald without a speck
of a doubt) to the theater and watches Oswald enter the theater lobby
without paying.

But, to a conspiracy kook, apparently Brewer's alert reactions are to
be snubbed and frowned upon. He should have been "minding his own
business", per a certain conspiracy-loving idiot.



OK, Robby, let's have Chapter 4 of the fictional story.....


ROB DELIVERS CHAPTER FOUR'S LUNACY:

"....This was the second Oswald. Harvey wore a long brown shirt and
Lee wore a white t-shirt. The police went to the balcony and were
talking with a man while the famous (Harvey) was being arrested below.
The shop owner a few doors down noticed a man being arrested and
brought out back while the famous one was coming out the front. There
was no arrest record for this other man and he was never heard from
again."


DVP SAID:

~LOL time once more~

I can see that Rob's favorite book is, undoubtedly, Mr. Armstrong's
tripe-filled "Harvey And Lee", wherein Armstrong has BOTH "Harvey
Oswald" and "Lee Harvey Oswald" (two different people who are dead-
ringers for one another) inside the Texas School Book Depository
Building at the time of JFK's assassination.

The architects of this nutty "Double Oswald" plot (a plot that was, of
course, invented from whole cloth by Armstrong) were evidently just
hoping against hope that NOBODY SPIES *BOTH* OF THESE "OSWALDS"
IN THE BUILDING AT THE SAME TIME.

Yeah, come to think of it, it's always a really good idea to have your
resident "patsy" and your "imposter patsy" being present AT THE SAME
PLACE AT THE VERY SAME TIME, isn't it?

Lovely plan there indeed.

Addendum -- I wonder why CTers like Rob can't just believe in a
smaller, more-reasonable-sounding conspiracy theory (like, say, Oswald
being involved with just one or maybe two other losers like himself)?

I could even buy into that type of smaller "plot" myself if somebody
could supply a granule of hard evidence to support such a notion
(which I doubt can happen after 44 years; plus there's Oswald's "solo-
like" actions after he left the Book Depository Building on November
22nd, which are actions that scream out "I'm All Alone!" to anyone who
will listen).

But, instead of believing in a manageable type of smaller "plot" (with
Oswald as the lone shooter of both Kennedy and Tippit, which the
evidence shows he unquestionably was), we are treated to the
outlandish and completely-unsupportable "Harvey And Lee" double-Oswald
type of scenarios like the one belched forth by Robert above (which he
no doubt got from Mr. Armstrong's 2003 book).

Maybe somebody should tell Rob that many times "less" makes more
sense.

Speaking of John Armstrong and his book, let's take a break now and
watch Vince Bugliosi rip into Mr. Armstrong's silliness with both
barrels blazing from VB's "Common Sense" gun. (And these are just a
few select excerpts of Vincent's demolition of Armstrong's crazy
theory; there are a full 14 magnificent pages in the endnotes section
of VB's book devoted solely to the destruction of Mr. Armstrong's
nonsense.).....

"John Armstrong actually went on to publish a 983-page book in
2003 called 'Harvey and Lee: How the CIA Framed Oswald', in which he
carries his fantasy about a double Oswald to such absurd lengths that
not only doesn't it deserve to be dignified in the main text of my
book, but I resent even having to waste a word on it in this
endnote. ....

"Obviously, if Armstrong had a source for any of the things he
charges, he would be only too eager to give it. Instead, his only
source is his exceptionally fertile imagination. ....

"On the day of the assassination, Armstrong has both Lee Harvey
Oswald and Harvey Oswald, two people [per looney author Armstrong] who
are spitting images of each other, in the Depository. .... At the
moment of the assassination, HARVEY Oswald was in the second-floor
lunchroom having lunch and LEE Harvey Oswald was on the sixth floor
firing at Kennedy. ....

"Lee Harvey Oswald escaped arrest, but Armstrong doesn't tell
his readers what happened to him thereafter, though...he tells them
near the beginning of the book that he may be "very much alive"." --
Vincent T. Bugliosi; Pages 565-567 of "Reclaiming History's" CD's
Endnotes (c.2007)




ROB'S INSANITY BLOSSOMS:

"Hazy is more apt to describe the evidence against LHO. It is all
conjecture. LHO shot no one that day."


DVP SAID:

Rob can now look forward to Nurse Ratched and three men clad in white
coats knocking on his door any minute. For, only an insane person who
is ready for a well-padded room could possibly have uttered the above
paragraph.

~Knock, knock...~


ROB'S EPILOG:

"I would love to believe in a single assassin. I would love to believe
my government cares about me and wants to protect me. This is not the
case. Denying it won't change it. The same can be said of LNers -- to
want LHO to have acted alone at ANY cost is just-flat out stupid."


DVP SAID:

I'd like to say something here, but I'm too choked up with emotion
after Rob's soliloquy to say anything. (I will, however, succumb to
the normal dose of laughter that is immediately induced after reading
anything written by this "ABO" kook named Robert.)


ROB, ON AN ORGASMIC "ANYBODY BUT OSWALD" ROLL, EJACULATES:

"They probably did shoot the Carcano a couple of times to frame
Oswald. The first round was a misfire and the one that did not fully
penetrate the back may have been another."


DVP SAID:

Gee, how nice of Rob to say that the Carcano was "probably" fired "a
couple of times" on 11/22/63. That's quite a concession for a rabid
CTer. If Rob's not careful, he'll get himself thrown out of the "ABO
[Anybody But Oswald] Kook Club" if he keeps telling tall tales like
that "probably did shoot the Carcano" business.

Wait...no...come to think of it, there's no chance of Rob getting
booted out of the ABO door. And that's because he made the following
ultra-stupid declaration (without a hint of being embarrassed while
uttering it).....

"LHO shot no one that day."

That statement, all by itself, guarantees Rob a lifetime membership in
the precious "ABO" Club. Which is a membership he no doubt treasures
as much as an Academy Award-winning actor treasures his Oscar statue.

Thanks for the "ABO" chapters, Rob. Best laugh I've had since reading
Walt's last post.

David Von Pein
October 2007

LINK TO ORIGINAL POST (OCTOBER 23, 2007)